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Afraid to make big plan

Old 10-05-2012, 03:17 PM
  # 41 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Athena1
I almost definitely will quit for good.
almost definitely?! that's a new one...hmmmmm is that like "kinda pregnant"?

Originally Posted by Athena1
I can show you links if you want, but the best evidence shows that the highest incidence of diagnosable alcoholism peaks in the 20's and then continuously goes down over lifespan (and a vast mojority of the time, without "treatment".) Some of the former alcoholics end up abstinent, and some progress to more moderated drinking.
No need. Thanks. I'm familiar with what the evidence shows and I agree with much of what you said. My statement to you was in response to your postings about elaborate rules you have set up surrounding moderating your drinking. It sounds like you got this, so that's great.

I'm aware of no high quality evidence that support the notion of the progressive disease theory as being representative of the anything besides the exception rather than the rule.
I don't subscribe to the disease theory. Never have. There is, however, some evidence to show that once pathways in the brain have been "opened/learned" that the brain does not forget them, making re-addiction after abstinence very likely in most cases.
I just am not persuaded by "Believe this because I/we say so" arguments. I'm just an evidence junkie.
You must have me confused with someone else. I have neither the time nor the inclination to "persuade" you to quit drinking. Your life is yours.
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Old 10-05-2012, 04:45 PM
  # 42 (permalink)  
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almost definitely?! that's a new one...hmmmmm is that like "kinda pregnant"?
More like almost sure, or almost positive. I dunno..."around 90% or more sure"?

No need. Thanks. I'm familiar with what the evidence shows and I agree with much of what you said. My statement to you was in response to your postings about elaborate rules you have set up surrounding moderating your drinking. It sounds like you got this, so that's great.
Groovy!

There is, however, some evidence to show that once pathways in the brain have been "opened/learned" that the brain does not forget them, making re-addiction after abstinence very likely in most cases.
Well, sure. But that's all behaviors, whether you've reduced/modified or abstained. (Certain abstinence only treatment programs appear to make a lot of people drink even more than they did before going in, although I highly doubt RR would have that effect, in spite of the lack of evidence either way besides 100% positive anecdotes. Which is really impressive on its own, really. Of course, RR is selective, in that it's a matter of choice. If someone doesn't really want to stop, they won't go with the big plan till they decide it's time to. )

You must have me confused with someone else. I have neither the time nor the inclination to "persuade" you to quit drinking. Your life is yours

I was mostly referring to this:

It's not sustainable. You (ahem...your AV) may choose to disagree with me, but it simply is not sustainable over a lifetime for the addicted.
I was just sayin', most of the addicted actually just drink less or quit over time, either by conscious decision or natural growing up or whatever (what those mysterious self-curing people are doing hasn't ever been studied to my knowledge. It would be interesting to know how many just lose interest, or create rules to be able to stay functional/happy/etc, or what.)
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Old 10-05-2012, 08:24 PM
  # 43 (permalink)  
 
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I was just sayin', most of the addicted actually just drink less or quit over time, either by conscious decision or natural growing up or whatever
This is not accurate.

It would be interesting to know how many just lose interest, or create rules to be able to stay functional/happy/etc, or what.)
Interesting maybe to the addicted. No one else would actually give it much thought. A telling preoccupation.
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Old 10-06-2012, 10:55 AM
  # 44 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Athena1 View Post
My problem with the big plan still is that I just don't feel ambivalent. I don't feel uncomfortable thinking about never drinking again. I know I could choose that and that it wouldn't be difficult, even. I just really have no desire to make that choice as of right now, although it's always on the table.
Well, carry on drinking so and enjoy yourself.

If and when you get really fed up with drinking, you can make your Big Plan.

(I suspect, though, that you are already fed up with it or you wouldn't be posting here, and that there is some fear in you about making a big plan.)
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Old 10-08-2012, 01:34 PM
  # 45 (permalink)  
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Athena1, I'm also new here. If you feel happy with drinking once a week it's cool. For most of us Alchool was depriving us our things in our lifes, controlling us, making us hurt, giving health problems. I could go on, you get the idea.

The AV and making the big plan is like prison camp prisonnors wanting to escape. The beast was controlling our lifes, we simply said enought!
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Old 10-25-2012, 06:21 PM
  # 46 (permalink)  
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There comes a time. Did you ever feel like you engaged in increased depraved behavior to try to force a catastrophic change (ie creating 'bottom' leading to big plan).
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Old 10-25-2012, 09:23 PM
  # 47 (permalink)  
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Hi, Dalia.

I remember thinking to myself that there would be some sort of climactic blowout. Many times that thought became the rationale to go ahead and crack another bottle. Pretty much any rationale for drinking and drugging has to be AV, don't you think? I'm not sure there is a bottom, anyway. It seems like people just keep falling until they either quit or die.

How are you? I remember you using the word "catastrophic" before in connection with the consequences of addiction. But here it's applied to the Big Plan... which is kind of interesting from an AVRT perspective, yeah? Makes perfect sense. It certainly will be a catastrophic change but not for you. For you it's gonna be the best gift you ever gave yourself.
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Old 10-25-2012, 09:28 PM
  # 48 (permalink)  
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Maybe. I remember saying, 'See that guy over there? I am nowhere near as bad as he is ** }, thank goodness. Sure, let's stop and have a couple'. Funny, I think there was a 'yet' in those brackets, even if I didn't say it out loud.

On the other hand, I don't think I drove at the cliff's edge so that I would have to turn around, it was more like edging closer and closer while increasing speed. Finally I just pulled up and stopped, looked over the cliff and set out on foot.
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Old 10-26-2012, 08:04 AM
  # 49 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Dalia
There comes a time. Did you ever feel like you engaged in increased depraved behavior to try to force a catastrophic change (ie creating 'bottom' leading to big plan).
Yes, I did feel like that.
The thing about "catastrophic change" is that the outcome is a huge gamble. It's a risk that your beast will gladly take without concern. As long as it gets drunk it doesn't care about anything else. But YOU...you understand the risks to pushing catastrophic change. Your beast is all "WOOHOO let's ride this b*tch into the ground" but YOU are experiencing fear...as you should. There may be no coming back. Your beast doesn't care...but clearly you do. Separate. Separate now.

You do not need to hit bottom to recover. As others have said, that's pure AV.
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