Terminally Unique

It will no more spread like wildfire than the cold turkey quit smoking methods will, even though the majority of long-term ex smokers did just that. There is also no money in self-recovery and planned, permanent abstinence. The folks over at whyquit.com, the Internet's leading smoking-cessation web site, tried to get the federal government to provide their free information on educated cold-turkey quitting, contained in the free eBook, "Never Take Another Puff" (NTAP) to the public, but you won't find NTAP listed on any federal government quit smoking web site. You will, however, find many plug-ins for Chantix, Nicorette, and other pharmaceutical products.

As for not hearing about it, you won't hear about it, simply because people who quit on their own don't go around advertising. To use myself as an example, there are a few people in my life who have expressed amazement at my ability to quit drinking, seemingly without help. They just can't imagine how a seemingly hopeless drunken mess can just up and quit, and they have actually asked me how I managed to do it, but I never actually told them I used AVRT. I just told them that I quit.

Rational Recovery did once get lots of media coverage, when it had the RR Self-Help Network (now SMART Recovery), and was featured in every major media outlet. When RR ditched the meetings and focused on providing information on AVRT instead, it lost some of its media appeal.

Right now, it seems like you are "program shopping," looking for something that will produce results, but behind the scenes, your Beast is gathering evidence that nothing works for everyone, and that hopefully, nothing will work for you. Your Beast is definitely afraid of one-step solutions, and it wants you to believe that you are hopeless, doomed to drink forever. You are missing the entire point of AVRT, though, which is not something that works on you and produces results. You are likening AVRT with treatment, ie, "I tried [insert tretment], that didn't work, and now AVRT isn't working, woe is me."

AVRT is just you, your self, your identity, your free will, and when you believe in AVRT, you believe in yourself, your self-direction, and your freedom. If you doubt AVRT, you are only doubting yourself. AVRT is not something that works on you, it is something that you do, by looking at your hands and realizing that only you, and not your body's desire for alcohol, have control of your muscles. If you really believe that you are powerless over your desire for alcohol, or beyond human aid, though, there is a program out there that might appeal to you more, and the people in it will be more than happy to welcome you. Their door is always open, and their hand is always there for the newcomer.

Some people need to try every type of program, treatment, and therapy in existence before they can grasp the simplicity of AVRT, and I am not here to convince you to quit drinking. Note that simple does not mean easy, however. I will just say that if you keep drinking, you will probably end up where you are headed, and you likely know the risks of doing so better than anyone else can. I hope that you make the wise choice, and that you become a miracle rather than waiting for one, but the choice is ultimately yours alone to make.

AprilMay1895

Am I being a whimpy, whiny pushover with this? Acting like I have no power when I do? Denying my own ability for self-control just because it's "hard" to say no to what I want? Lacking the confidence to believe in myself and my own power over my own actions?

I think so. If I REALLY want to quit drinking SO BADLY like I say I do, then I should just quit. No if's and's or's or but's about it. And this is all you've all really did...just quit and took no other answer from yourself. Even when the "whimpy, whiny, poor me" kicks in, you're answer is still just NEVER.

Let me know if I'm wrong.

Terminally Unique

He does indeed.
AVRT is just the common thread of self-recovery, the nuts and bolts of quitting an addiction, without any extra fluff, provided in an educational format for contemporary use.

onlythetruth

I'm not the expert on this, and don't mean to butt in, but I'm going to bet that TU is going to say that yes, that's exactly it. To a certain extent it's pure stubbornness at first: the option is off the table, REALLY off the table and not subject to discussion.

AprilMay1895

Well, I figure it's like that. That's how I was last night since I was so sick the night before from drinking, drinking another night was just not an option. The voice kicked in but just no chance in hell I was going to listen to it and drink.

I also can see this if I imagined I were pregnant. Because a pregnant woman does not sit there and debate whether or not she'll drink. She just WON'T. End of story.

Terminally Unique

There is that, because if you have made a Big Plan for permanent, unconditional abstinence, you no longer drink. However, with AVRT, you also detach from addictive desire, so that you don't even want to drink, because addictive desire is not you, but the Beast. As long as the Beast remains an IT, something that you can observe, you will be safe. Your Beast may really want to drink, but it can't do a thing without your blessing. It has to come to you to get anything done, like going to the liquor store, for example. Try asking the Beast to wiggle your fingers. Can it do that?

Terminally Unique

April, did you ever get around to actually reading the whole book?

Terminally Unique

There is a paradox in deciding not to do something, in that you will probably think about doing it. Remember, though, that with AVRT, addiction is drinking/using against your own better judgment, and that you are choosing not to drink. If it helps, you can tell yourself "IT may want to drink, but I choose never to drink," which keeps that fact in focus. If you choose not to do something, obviously you don't want to do it, or you wouldn't have chosen not to.

Just a thought.

AprilMay1895

Read the WHOLE book? Like each and every single word? Ummmmm.....I keep falling asleep. I have the major concepts down, a lot of it is common sense...but every single word on every page? No. I've been having a hard time reading anything lately actually. Which is a sign my depression is up...reading anything longer than a page takes superhuman power. I really wish they had an audiobook. I can listen to stuff but I can't sit still and focus on words for a long time.

Maybe I can tackle the rest of it a chapter at a time this week...just force every little bit into my head.

Terminally Unique

April,

There is no great mystery to addiction recovery, or to AVRT, for that matter. While I strongly recommend that you put the bottle down long enough to read the book, reflect on what you read, and make a Big Plan, all you really need to answer is this:
When you can answer "no, I will never drink again, and I will never change my mind," recognize all good feelings that result from that decision as you, and all bad feelings that result as your Beast, you will be free.

Don't wait for a miracle; be one.

wellwisher

So true

kanamit

I have just finished reading it for a second time and because I read it after reading the couple of threads on here it is much more firmly engrained the second time round. I feel like after the first read the Beast always felt it was up for parole at some point but after the second read it has been denied being released. Ever. No questions asked.

I'm interested in the feelings of anxiety and arousal as illustrated on p. 183. This is so true because whenever I've decided to resume drinking after a period of abstinence I feel fantastic when withdrawing the money and walking over to the shop, with a slight tinge of disappointment. If you start feeling anxious is there any way to turn that into elation without having to decide to drink? Clearly, your brain is capable of it.

freethinking

Truthfully, in reading your posts, it reminds me so much of being stuck in that place when I was drinking of being miserable and trying to intellectually climb my way out of the hole I was in - yet being stuck in some nightmarish spiral because I was still, in fact, drinking while trying to do so. I thought of everything (lol, one time I even left positive, reaffirming sticky notes all over the house in a drunken stupor about not drinking and to "cheer up" - yeah, that didn't do squat the next day). I was living in pure insanity because I continued to drink and really felt that some magic, intellectual plan was going to finally resonate with me while I was in the midst of my addiction and from there things would get better. The harsh truth was, nothing was going to resonate with me or make sense until I first decided point blank to stop.

In reading your posts, it feels like the real you is searching but because you are still drinking, The Beast/addictive voice is in full swing and shutting down every viable option out there - and that you are often times at one with The Beast but don't see it. It reminds me so much of how I was for a very long time. I hope you can climb out soon.

flyawayfromhere

Hey, it's April here. If you ask how to delete your account on here that's equivalent to please delete it now. I needed a different username anyway though...I need to be super secret. lol

Thanks for the post Freethinking, I'm glad you can understand me and you hit it dead on. I know that the Beast is in full swing, but do I have the will in me to dissociate and fight for sobriety again? I really don't know anymore.

So yeah, I'm living in some sort of 7th level of hell right now. It's either see a doctor for antabuse and campral or read the rest of the book and just decide to stop drinking...if that's possible.

Either way, something needs to happen soon. I can't go on like this...drinking after I say I won't, I feel like I'm worth about as much as the slime at the bottom of a garbage dumpster....and I have to start running a graphics department in about a week.

Anyway, I won't post on this thread anymore until I read the rest of the book. Thanks for everyone's input.

FT

Hi flyaway,

I found out if I wanted to be undercover, I have to stop wearing the Nordic horns helmet and 7" red sequined spike heels to the 7 Eleven to buy my National Enquirer every week (my MOST serious reading, during PRIVATE TIMES only).

In all seriousness, however, I have to tell ya -- keep coming on here and reading, even if you don't post. I've picked up more pearls of wisdom from keeping my mouth shut than I could ever have imagined.

Quitting drinking CAN be done. For me, I almost equated it to the "window" NASA looks for when setting off a shuttle launch. While I don't like to make too much of timing, especially when it starts to look an awful lot like procrastination, I could tell the time was right for me when I jumped off.

Good luck to you.

FT

oakwood

I'm still a work in progress. But I have found the book to be an absolute necessity for me in understanding this technique. I didn't find the second part boring at all. In fact, I welcomed the solutions it offered. Just my opinion, of course.

And, I only read it when I'm sober, have some time to think while I read, and have an open mind to it. Reading it while I'm drinking just seems so wrong on so many levels. I mean, what's the point of that? Lol.

flyawayfromhere

Wait, are we all talking about reading a book while intoxicated? If so, I'd like to say...wait one freaking minute. I was saying it was hard for me to read it even after 2 or 3 days of not drinking. Who reads while drunk? Is that even possible? lol Realizing today that my not wanting to read it was a matter of passive-aggressive resistance toward life long abstinence. I wasn't reading it because I didn't want to hear it...or maybe my Beast didn't. It wasn't a matter of being drunk while trying to read it...that's just nonsense.

oakwood

Lol! No, it's not possible. But, knowing me, I would try to read while drinking. My normal self loves to read so I would try the same thing drunk.

Didn't mean to offend, at all. I was just stating from my own experience. I understand not wanting to hear it, though. Me, too.

flyawayfromhere

Oh no, I'm not upset with you at all. Just wanted to make sure we were all clear. lol

If I tried to read a book while drunk I'd probably turn the book itself into an arts & crafts project...maybe make some origami out of the pages...EXTREMELY short attention span when drunk. lol

flyawayfromhere

Knocked down a good chunk of Part II last night. Totally my AV that was telling me that the rest of the book was useless. Someone should try that as an experiment once, read the first part and take the crash course and then stop learning the technique...wonder if their Beast would jump on the chance to talk them out of finishing the book too. "You don't need to finish that book, you got it all down anyway. The rest is just common sense or just another long winded literary attempt from some ***** trying to solve an enormously complex problem with a pretty little self-help book."