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Addictive Voice Recognition Technique (AVRT) Discussion Part 2

Old 10-11-2011, 02:32 PM
  # 101 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Terminally Unique View Post
For those of you that have the book, make sure you don't just skip over the "ACTION" sections in each chapter like I did the first time I read it. AVRT is a learned skill, like riding a bicycle, and the learning curve can seem steep at first, particularly if you've had extensive exposure to addiction treatment or recovery groups. The exercises will give you some practice with AVRT, and once you get over the initial learning curve, it quickly builds momentum.
This is good advice. I read it too quickly the first time and skipped a lot of the action parts. I'm going to read it a second time but as though I were studying it for a Degree, or something similar.

Do you think all of Part I is necessary? It seems to be more background and a systematic breakdown of recovery groups. Part II seems to be the crucial part.
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Old 10-11-2011, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Terminally Unique View Post
Just have fun with it. AVRT is not rocket science, and I don't think that Trimpey was going for the Nobel prize in literature when he wrote RR: The New Cure. It seemed less convoluted than "The Small Book" to me, and "The Art of AVRT" is written in an even more leisurely, almost free-form style.
Would you recommend The Art of AVRT as supplementary reading?
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Old 10-11-2011, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by ElvisInASkirt
I will overcome my fear of flying only by flying sober.
I think overcoming fears is hugely important. I have overcome many fears as a non-drinker. Doing things I never thought I could I do is so empowering and doing things without liquid or pill-form "courage" to boot...it just doesn't get any better than that! I find that the more I do this as a non-drinker....the stronger *I* become, and in turn the weaker *she* becomes. *She* is afraid of things...*I* am not.
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Old 10-12-2011, 06:55 AM
  # 104 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by kanamit View Post
This is good advice. I read it too quickly the first time and skipped a lot of the action parts. I'm going to read it a second time but as though I were studying it for a Degree, or something similar.

Do you think all of Part I is necessary? It seems to be more background and a systematic breakdown of recovery groups. Part II seems to be the crucial part.
Strictly speaking, if you have already read Part I, you probably don't have to read it again, but you might want to re-read the "Bullets for Your Beast" section on pages 35-41 and the ACTION questions that follow it.
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Old 10-12-2011, 07:44 AM
  # 105 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Terminally Unique View Post
Strictly speaking, if you have already read Part I, you probably don't have to read it again, but you might want to re-read the "Bullets for Your Beast" section on pages 35-41 and the ACTION questions that follow it.
Thanks. I started again his morning. I think I'll read it from cover to cover. Not drinking leaves me plenty of time to read, which I love.
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Old 10-12-2011, 08:20 AM
  # 106 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by kanamit View Post
Would you recommend The Art of AVRT as supplementary reading?
"Rational Recovery: The New Cure for Substance Addiction," published in 1996, is effectively the second edition of "The Final Fix for Alcohol and Drug Addiction: AVRT," which was published in 1994. While RR:TNC is remarkably comprehensive, Trimpey nevertheless left out a few things that emerged later, most of which seem to have been incorporated into the newer "Advanced Crash Course on AVRT" (2003).

"The Art of AVRT" (2010) is an unabriged, in-house publication which only comes in sets of six. It includes the material from the first "Crash Course on AVRT," the updates from the advanced crash course, and some of Trimpey's thoughts which had previously been published on his blog, all expounded on. It has a much heavier emphasis on the moral aspect of AVRT, and generalizes AVRT into human affairs, mainly politics, which many people might not be interested in at all. There is some material in there that many might object to, as he has some choice words to say about liberals and progressives, amongst other things.

Suffice to say that "politically correct" is not a phrase that I would use to describe the book, and that TNC is relatively tame in comparison. Indeed, I doubt that I would even be allowed to quote much of it on this forum. I was already familiar with Trimpey's blog, so I wasn't particularly surprised at this, but those who haven't read his blog might be. While the bulk of "The Art of AVRT" is about addiction, it is apparent that Trimpey also had another focus, as indicated by the very first sentence of the introduction: "This book about addiction and recovery is also about social change in America."

Personally, while I found much of the book interesting, I don't view it as a replacement for "RR: The New Cure," which is more comprehensive. It does indeed fill in some of the new material that was left out of TNC, but I don't consider "The Art of AVRT" strictly necessary, and if I had to recommend one book on addiction, I would recommend TNC without hesitation. So, to answer your question, I don't think it is necessary as supplementary reading. It does have some good material, but overall, I'm not entirely sure what to make of it myself, to be honest.

Since it is not available on the RR web site, below is the "Table of Contents" for reference:

"The Art of AVRT" - Table of Contents
  • Introduction
  • Chapter 1. The American Addiction Tragedy
  • Chapter 2. Create Your Moment of Clarity
  • Chapter 3. Exactly Why Do You Drink/Use?
  • Chapter 4. Shifting
  • Chapter 5. The Essence of AVRT
  • Chapter 6. The Art of the Big Plan
  • Chapter 7. The Big Gun
  • Chapter 8. Make Up Your Mind!
  • Chapter 9. The AVRT Matrix
  • Chapter 10. The Viral Suite: Addiction 1.0
  • Chapter 11. Bullets for Your Beast
  • Chapter 12. Smokey The Beast
  • Chapter 13. Sexual Error and your Sex Beast
  • Chapter 14. The Abstinence Commitment Effect
  • Chapter 15. The Thrill is Back
  • Bibliography
  • More AVRT Resources
The Art of AVRT
Copyright 2010 by Jack Trimpey
All Rights Reserved.
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Old 10-12-2011, 08:39 AM
  # 107 (permalink)  
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I think my Beast is a proud supporter of my cynicism. I went for a walk last night and this thought popped into my head, "If AVRT really worked, then why are the people who use it hanging out on a sober recovery forum? Wouldn't they just take their abstinence and leave the addiction field entirely since they're "cured"?" To which I thought, "Aha! I've solved it, it's all lies!" And this whole thought conversation was taking place in the "I" and I didn't directly correlate it to drinking at all so not the AV at all, so I kept thinking about it...then later that night, I thought, "If people who use AVRT are still on these forums because they need more help to support their abstinence, then that means AVRT doesn't work, and if AVRT doesn't work then I'll drink again, and if I'll drink again, I might as well start whenever I feel like it." which then led to, "Aha! I found you Beast, you like to disguise yourself as my cynicism!"

So my AV will not always be so obvious at first but if I follow the thought through in my head, I can figure out where it would eventually lead. I think I'm getting it. lol
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Old 10-12-2011, 08:59 AM
  # 108 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by AprilMay1895 View Post
I think my Beast is a proud supporter of my cynicism. I went for a walk last night and this thought popped into my head, "If AVRT really worked, then why are the people who use it hanging out on a sober recovery forum? Wouldn't they just take their abstinence and leave the addiction field entirely since they're "cured"?" To which I thought, "Aha! I've solved it, it's all lies!"
Yes, the Addictive Voice will use your own cynicism against you, particularly if other things have not "worked" for you. Part of the "problem" with AVRT is that in many respects, it is probably too simple. At first, you might think "this is too simple, it can't possibly work," and you can be sure that the Beast will try and take full advantage of that perception. The truth, of course, is that nothing "works" except not drinking/using.

Originally Posted by AprilMay1895 View Post
And this whole thought conversation was taking place in the "I" and I didn't directly correlate it to drinking at all so not the AV at all, so I kept thinking about it...then later that night, I thought, "If people who use AVRT are still on these forums because they need more help to support their abstinence, then that means AVRT doesn't work, and if AVRT doesn't work then I'll drink again, and if I'll drink again, I might as well start whenever I feel like it." which then led to, "Aha! I found you Beast, you like to disguise yourself as my cynicism!"

So my AV will not always be so obvious at first but if I follow the thought through in my head, I can figure out where it would eventually lead. I think I'm getting it. lol
Very good, April. You've discovered the "strategic" Addictive Voice, which unlike the usual, dumb AV, is more like a chess player. It will take you around in circles and through a few detours first, but the end game is still the same — to drink or use drugs.
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Old 10-12-2011, 04:12 PM
  # 109 (permalink)  
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Boy, that AV is a sneaky *******, isn't it?
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Old 10-12-2011, 07:01 PM
  # 110 (permalink)  
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Hello,

so delighted to find an AVRT section here at SR.

TU - you guided me to AVRT a few months ago - thank you. I will never drink again. Have been purposefully staying away from alcohol discussions of any kind, and this is my frst visit to SR for a while. Now am looking forward to hearing from others who remain abstinent in the same way. Still all feels like a new suit to me, being fairly new to it, so very helpful to read that others have had similar experiences.

SM
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Old 10-12-2011, 07:08 PM
  # 111 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by sobermax View Post
so delighted to find an AVRT section here at SR.

TU - you guided me to AVRT a few months ago - thank you. I will never drink again. Have been purposefully staying away from alcohol discussions of any kind, and this is my frst visit to SR for a while. Now am looking forward to hearing from others who remain abstinent in the same way. Still all feels like a new suit to me, being fairly new to it, so very helpful to read that others have had similar experiences.
I'm glad things worked out for you, Max. This is "Part 2," so you might want to go back and read through the first part. I'm sure that others would be interested in your thoughts on AVRT as well.
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Old 10-12-2011, 07:26 PM
  # 112 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by AprilMay1895 View Post
"If AVRT really worked, then why are the people who use it hanging out on a sober recovery forum? Wouldn't they just take their abstinence and leave the addiction field entirely since they're "cured"?"
AprilMay, even though your AV may have been asking these questions to convince you that RR is indeed 'all lies', I can fairly ask myself the same question. Why do I and folks like TU, soberlicious, Zencat, SoberJennie, stang, freethinking, and many others, continue to hang around this forum when we are non-drinkers? There are lots of reasons, and they likely include the enthusiasm of discovery, a drive to 'show them, I can do this by myself', a desire to help and share with others as we wish someone had done for us, and the energy felt if another addict is helped.

Hanging out on SR is good therapy for any addict, past or present.

Last edited by freshstart57; 10-12-2011 at 07:28 PM. Reason: fixed something
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Old 10-12-2011, 07:37 PM
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Agree with what FreshStart said. And to add, I am only 5 months clean - so I think for at least the next 6 months or so at least I need to stay engaged with this stuff. Coming here is perfect for me - I find it intellectually stimulating too.
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Old 10-12-2011, 08:16 PM
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Thanks Freshstart! I can understand why you might, there's such a wealth of information and ideas here and obviously, if you guys hadn't stuck around I'd still be in ** meetings slamming my head against a wall. LOL I think it's taken a lot of me hanging around here to let go of what I was taught previously so I could find something that works for me. I have a great amount of appreciation for the opinions and input I get to read and take advantage of everyday.
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Old 10-12-2011, 08:38 PM
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Intellectual stimulation is top on the list for me...other reasons for coming here include "meeting" some funny, cool, diverse thinkers, and responding to people who are just starting on their journey. Being on SR has nothing to do with keeping me from drinking. It just keeps me thinking. That's what I thrive on.
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Old 10-13-2011, 09:49 AM
  # 116 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by freethinking View Post
Agree with what FreshStart said. And to add, I am only 5 months clean - so I think for at least the next 6 months or so at least I need to stay engaged with this stuff.
How long you stay is up to you, but for the purposes of AVRT, we let the Beast count time. There is no hierarchy based on how much clean or sober time someone has, and those who have made a Big Plan for permanent, unconditional abstinence are all on equal footing.
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Old 10-13-2011, 10:22 AM
  # 117 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by onlythetruth View Post
Boy, that AV is a sneaky *******, isn't it?
It is indeed, and I had a very distinct "Beast attack" yesterday. I am an unrepentant caffeine junkie, have been drinking coffee since I was 10 years old, and I drink entirely too many espressos. The problem is that after a while, the caffeine stops working, and I drink so much of it that it rips my stomach apart, and I have to start chasing the espressos with antacid tablets. At that point, I usually make a temporary Big Plan and "detox" from caffeine for about two weeks to drop my tolerance again.

Well, it is that time again, and yesterday I was driving to the vitamin shoppe to get some highly concentrated Vitamin C, which flushes the caffeine out faster and puts me into instant withdrawal. I usually take it right before going to sleep for a few days. Anyway, there is a liquor store right next to the vitamin shop, and I know just enough about the chemistry of alcohol metabolism to know which amino acids to take to counter the toxic effects.

Mr. Beast had been very quiet for a long time, but since I have previously used alcohol to both flush the caffeine out and to not feel the withdrawal, IT seized upon this golden opportunity. I heard the AV loud and clear: "well, you know you're going to feel like ****, right? why not get some of those nice anti-alcohol amino acids so you don't get a hangover, go to the liquor store, and drink your way through it all?"

I dismissed it, but that SOB came out full force, and I could almost feel myself being pulled toward the amino acids section, and imagining a few nice buzzed out evenings. In AVRT, this would be a "vertigo" moment, so I said to myself "that was vertigo," which snapped me out of it. Then I simply said "never," and Mr. Beast slinked away back to his cave.

It doesn't matter how long it has been since you've heard the Addictive Voice. What matters is that you remember your skill-set to torpedo that little ******* when IT comes out from its cave.
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Old 10-13-2011, 11:57 AM
  # 118 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Terminally Unique View Post
It is indeed, and I had a very distinct "Beast attack" yesterday. I am an unrepentant caffeine junkie, have been drinking coffee since I was 10 years old, and I drink entirely too many espressos. The problem is that after a while, the caffeine stops working, and I drink so much of it that it rips my stomach apart, and I have to start chasing the espressos with antacid tablets. At that point, I usually make a temporary Big Plan and "detox" from caffeine for about two weeks to drop my tolerance again.

Well, it is that time again, and yesterday I was driving to the vitamin shoppe to get some highly concentrated Vitamin C, which flushes the caffeine out faster and puts me into instant withdrawal. I usually take it right before going to sleep for a few days. Anyway, there is a liquor store right next to the vitamin shop, and I know just enough about the chemistry of alcohol metabolism to know which amino acids to take to counter the toxic effects.

Mr. Beast had been very quiet for a long time, but since I have previously used alcohol to both flush the caffeine out and to not feel the withdrawal, IT seized upon this golden opportunity. I heard the AV loud and clear: "well, you know you're going to feel like ****, right? why not get some of those nice anti-alcohol amino acids so you don't get a hangover, go to the liquor store, and drink your way through it all?"

I dismissed it, but that SOB came out full force, and I could almost feel myself being pulled toward the amino acids section, and imagining a few nice buzzed out evenings. In AVRT, this would be a "vertigo" moment, so I said to myself "that was vertigo," which snapped me out of it. Then I simply said "never," and Mr. Beast slinked away back to his cave.

It doesn't matter how long it has been since you've heard the Addictive Voice. What matters is that you remember your skill-set to torpedo that little ******* when IT comes out from its cave.
I know your pain I have a really sore stomach now from too much caffeine and the world seems a bit too much. This is why I am now lying in a darkened room with the window open.

The beast will always come back for me but he will always be recognizable for his pure lust for the booze and heady oblivion.

Ive longed to be this free for so long and now I have it. I let the beast back in a bit last week and I ended up with the relapse anxiety. Then i read the book a bit more and I realized that the anxiety was sourced from a dying breed.

The light of my consciousness can burn through anything. I used to drink to feel expansive but I only ever gained glimpses of it. Now I live in that state.
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Old 10-13-2011, 12:23 PM
  # 119 (permalink)  
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I'm at work right now, which is why I'm asking rather than researching. AVRT has been working fantastically for me lately. I even have had beer sitting in my fridge for the past 4 days and haven't wanted to drink it (It is fun to do this though, "Hey, Beast, do you want some beer? I have three! What's that? You DO want it? Too bad! I don't drink anymore." That's a riot. lol) But I have this unsettling feeling about this though like what if my Beast gets super sneaky and somehow does convince me to drink? What if I'm not on guard one time and it gets the upper hand? Right now I'm just constantly in my own head trying to watch for suspicious signs and urges, obviously I'm not always going to be doing that and don't want to either. Does this uneasy feeling dissipate with time?
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Old 10-13-2011, 12:36 PM
  # 120 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by AprilMay1895 View Post
I have this unsettling feeling about this though like what if my Beast gets super sneaky and somehow does convince me to drink? What if I'm not on guard one time and it gets the upper hand?
This is the Addictive Voice itself, warden Beast talking, which doesn't want you to escape the prison of addiction. All self-doubt about your own ability to abstain is the AV. You don't really have to be on guard, because nothing is more conspicuous to a formerly addicted person than the desire to drink or use.

Originally Posted by AprilMay1895 View Post
Right now I'm just constantly in my own head trying to watch for suspicious signs and urges, obviously I'm not always going to be doing that and don't want to either. Does this uneasy feeling dissipate with time?
If you recognize it for what it is, yes, but realize that your AV will throw any prior recovery concepts that you may have picked up along the way right back at you. Examples include slippery places, triggers, having no defense against the first drink, the idea that nobody can just quit or do it alone, etc. Set your confidence level arbitrarily at 100%, recognize all self-doubt as the Addictive Voice itself, and you will do well.
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