Addictive Voice Recognition Technique (AVRT) Discussion Part 2
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Originally Posted by failedtaper 
Hi Kanamit,
I am also from a drinking culture. I am hispanic, and wine was a part of daily life for my family, even the children, although for the children it was incidental until they were older. Unfortunately, in some cultures like mine, most of what I can remember about my older uncles was how they stunk of wine and tobacco, as remembered through the eyes of a child.
A lot of people from drinking cultures don't drink alcohol. My grandmother, for example, never drank wine or ouzo, which was always around. It was mostly the men, and it was indeed part of their macho-ness.
I think the main thing is for you to be firm in your resolve, which certainly is part of AVRT. In fact, my take on AVRT is that it matters little whether you are in a room full of drinkers or sitting next to a single one in an intimate setting. People who knew me with a drink always in my hand didn't seem to care much beyond my first "explanation" that I just didn't feel like drinking anymore, in fact I felt better than I ever had and was watching out for my health as I got older. (ha! old at 40)
Some of the drinking cultures have recognized that alcohol abuse is separate from the traditional drinking that has been done culturally. For example, in my culture children were always allowed sips of wine but never given their own glass. I didn't develop my own drinking habit until I was older, outside of family settings.
This is just my take on the issue, and not representative of the SVRT method.
FT
I am also from a drinking culture. I am hispanic, and wine was a part of daily life for my family, even the children, although for the children it was incidental until they were older. Unfortunately, in some cultures like mine, most of what I can remember about my older uncles was how they stunk of wine and tobacco, as remembered through the eyes of a child.
A lot of people from drinking cultures don't drink alcohol. My grandmother, for example, never drank wine or ouzo, which was always around. It was mostly the men, and it was indeed part of their macho-ness.
I think the main thing is for you to be firm in your resolve, which certainly is part of AVRT. In fact, my take on AVRT is that it matters little whether you are in a room full of drinkers or sitting next to a single one in an intimate setting. People who knew me with a drink always in my hand didn't seem to care much beyond my first "explanation" that I just didn't feel like drinking anymore, in fact I felt better than I ever had and was watching out for my health as I got older. (ha! old at 40)
Some of the drinking cultures have recognized that alcohol abuse is separate from the traditional drinking that has been done culturally. For example, in my culture children were always allowed sips of wine but never given their own glass. I didn't develop my own drinking habit until I was older, outside of family settings.
This is just my take on the issue, and not representative of the SVRT method.
FT
I guess the first time you do anything there is always some apprehension. So the first time I go on holiday with a Big Plan I may feel some, even though deep down I know I don't need to.
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Originally Posted by Terminally Unique
Bear in mind that if anyone actually cares that you don't drink, then there are probably two of them. There is the person you are with, and that person's Beast. It is their Beast that is uncomfortable with abstainers. If you remember this, it will make more sense. Don't explain to their Beast why you don't drink any more than you would explain it to your own Beast.
Just say "I never drink."
Just say "I never drink."
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Originally Posted by kanamit
That's a great way of looking at it. Plus the Beast probably knows how strong my resolve is now and that I no longer want to drink so it's trying to use peer pressure to get me to do it. Nice try Beast, but you'll have to do a lot better than that.
Their own Addictive Voice will say to them "that goody two-shoes Kanamit, he thinks he's better than us because he doesn't drink? We'll work on him, bring him down a peg, make him just like us. Then we won't have to look at our own drinking and feel bad, or worse, give up our precious, precious stuff."
Always remember that all Beasts are the same, and that your own Beast also likes to run in packs, where it feels safe, free from judgment. When your Beast senses another of its own kind calling, it will tug, like a dog on a leash trying to mingle with the neighbor's dogs. When your Beast does this, be sure to tug back. Forcefully.
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I actually have a family of Beasts (with some exceptions)...over Labor Day, my uncle actually said to me after I discussed how I pretty much hate all alcohol except bloody mary's and beer, that "It doesn't matter what you're drinking, just as long as you're drinking. If you weren't drinking, then we'd have a problem!" Since I was drinking at the time, my Beast was like, "Yeah, sweet, let's party!!!" Even though it was obvious we all seemed like a bunch of drunks. lol
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Oh I actually managed to stop my AV today btw. Instead of thinking of my AV as some monster or evil thing or what have you, I pictured it as who I'd be 10 years from now if I drink again. My AV is about 350 pounds, she only wears light pink Walmart granny panty underwear...nothing else, her hair is atrocious, she has cellulite and stretch marks all over, she's always angry and hates everyone, her makeup is smeared all over her face from being constantly drunk or hungover and through this all, she thinks she's sexy and doesn't have a problem with alcohol.
Yeah, attach that mental picture to the "You should grab a 12 pack while you're at the grocery store" voice and you got another thing coming. lol
Yeah, attach that mental picture to the "You should grab a 12 pack while you're at the grocery store" voice and you got another thing coming. lol
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Originally Posted by AprilMay1895
Oh I actually managed to stop my AV today btw. Instead of thinking of my AV as some monster or evil thing or what have you, I pictured it as who I'd be 10 years from now if I drink again. My AV is about 350 pounds, she only wears light pink Walmart granny panty underwear...nothing else, her hair is atrocious, she has cellulite and stretch marks all over, she's always angry and hates everyone, her makeup is smeared all over her face from being constantly drunk or hungover and through this all, she thinks she's sexy and doesn't have a problem with alcohol.
Yeah, attach that mental picture to the "You should grab a 12 pack while you're at the grocery store" voice and you got another thing coming. lol
Yeah, attach that mental picture to the "You should grab a 12 pack while you're at the grocery store" voice and you got another thing coming. lol
You're making some progress, but I see what might be confusing you. You are trying to silence your AV, which can't always be done. People have a belief that desire is "bad," and that it must be removed, but if you go that route, there lies the old "white knuckling" purgatory. This is why many people in recovery are always so edgy; they are afraid of their own bodily desires.
If you stop trying to get rid of desire, though, this whole thing will be much easier. The "R" in AVRT is for recognition, not refute, remove, "running away from," or anything else. You just recognize the AV as the expression of your Beast, and then you ignore it.
Your Beast will try to convince you that it is cunning, baffling, powerful, and that it will GET YOU, but it is all bark and no bite. So, the next time you hear your AV, recognize that it is the voice of that 350 lb booze-hound with the pink underwear, and let her pout, argue, cajole, whine, complain, or anything she can think of. What do you care what she thinks? Screw her! Let HER squirm, and you just sit back and relax, enjoy the show.
Use addiction diction. If you think "I want a twelve pack," change the "I" to "IT" and tell yourself "IT wants a twelve pack, too bad for IT, I don't drink."
[or in your case, if you prefer, "SHE wants a six pack, too bad for HER, I don't drink"]
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AVRT and flight anxiety.
The AV will always make flying seem worse than it really is, so drinking to suppress flight anxiety is absurd as it will only make it seem even worse in future and creates an acute dependence.
I will overcome my fear of flying only by flying sober. In fact I'm looking into one of those flying courses. They are only £200.
The Beast inside has been really active of late but I've just been observing it. My god it's insane. It keeps trying to bargain. "Buy a bottle of vodka and drink it on your own before flying! No one will know!" out of nowhere. I witness this thought as an observer and I almost find it funny now.
The AV will always make flying seem worse than it really is, so drinking to suppress flight anxiety is absurd as it will only make it seem even worse in future and creates an acute dependence.
I will overcome my fear of flying only by flying sober. In fact I'm looking into one of those flying courses. They are only £200.
The Beast inside has been really active of late but I've just been observing it. My god it's insane. It keeps trying to bargain. "Buy a bottle of vodka and drink it on your own before flying! No one will know!" out of nowhere. I witness this thought as an observer and I almost find it funny now.
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For those of you that have the book, make sure you don't just skip over the "ACTION" sections in each chapter like I did the first time I read it. AVRT is a learned skill, like riding a bicycle, and the learning curve can seem steep at first, particularly if you've had extensive exposure to addiction treatment or recovery groups. The exercises will give you some practice with AVRT, and once you get over the initial learning curve, it quickly builds momentum.
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I could tell last week that my AV and I would go back and forth and back and forth...like I was trying to silence it, that was definitely white knuckling and when I decided I was just going to drink.
With the way I see the AV now, I had the thought, "I should pick up some beer while at the grocery store." I ruminated on it a bit and came about the picture of what I'd turn into if I said yes, attached that image to the AV, and thought "SHE's the one trying to get me to drink" and bam, it was gone. That was the first time where I just recognized it and it stopped...there was no back and forth.
What made the difference, I don't know. The way I envisioned the AV last week seemed too vague and imaginary. This way, it's more real and specific to me. I can't even refute that drinking won't lead me become that vision, because that's just the exaggerated version of who I see myself as recently when drunk...just without the Walmart light pink polyester granny panty underwear. lol
With the way I see the AV now, I had the thought, "I should pick up some beer while at the grocery store." I ruminated on it a bit and came about the picture of what I'd turn into if I said yes, attached that image to the AV, and thought "SHE's the one trying to get me to drink" and bam, it was gone. That was the first time where I just recognized it and it stopped...there was no back and forth.
What made the difference, I don't know. The way I envisioned the AV last week seemed too vague and imaginary. This way, it's more real and specific to me. I can't even refute that drinking won't lead me become that vision, because that's just the exaggerated version of who I see myself as recently when drunk...just without the Walmart light pink polyester granny panty underwear. lol
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Originally Posted by AprilMay1895
I could tell last week that my AV and I would go back and forth and back and forth...like I was trying to silence it, that was definitely white knuckling and when I decided I was just going to drink.
With the way I see the AV now, I had the thought, "I should pick up some beer while at the grocery store." I ruminated on it a bit and came about the picture of what I'd turn into if I said yes, attached that image to the AV, and thought "SHE's the one trying to get me to drink" and bam, it was gone. That was the first time where I just recognized it and it stopped...there was no back and forth.
With the way I see the AV now, I had the thought, "I should pick up some beer while at the grocery store." I ruminated on it a bit and came about the picture of what I'd turn into if I said yes, attached that image to the AV, and thought "SHE's the one trying to get me to drink" and bam, it was gone. That was the first time where I just recognized it and it stopped...there was no back and forth.
The AV can come in many forms, though, so you may want to read my "Functions of the Addictive Voice" post earlier in the thread. Set your confidence level in your ability to abstain arbitrarily at 100%, and recognize all self-doubt as the AV itself, and you'll do well.
I need to go back to the book and do the Action tips...I think I'm getting some of my focus back this week so that will help. lol
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The Beast ≠ The Addictive Voice
Not to nitpick, but "The Beast" (the desire for drugs/alcohol) is not the same thing as the Addictive Voice. The AV is the expression of the Beast, much like a dog's bark. The bark is coming from the dog, but it is not the dog itself.
See my "Functions of the Addictive Voice" post:
There is also my terminology post early on in the first thread:
See my "Functions of the Addictive Voice" post:
There is also my terminology post early on in the first thread:
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Ok, Mr. Nitpick, I know I've been using the two synonymously. So the image that one might have pop up when their AV is speaking is just a representation of the Beast then, not a visual representation/embodiment of the AV itself.
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Originally Posted by AprilMay1895
Ok, Mr. Nitpick, I know I've been using the two synonymously. So the image that one might have pop up when their AV is speaking is just a representation of the Beast then, not a visual representation/embodiment of the AV itself.
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Well, coupled with a booze-damaged brain and the cynicism I've developed about recovery methods when I base them on my experience with **, I've managed to turn everything I read into rocket science. Rather than be open minded and accepting, I get overly cautious and think "What lies are they trying to make believe here?" I get so uptight, thinking that another person or group of people are going to try to convince me into the wrong solution again that it makes it difficult for me to accept anything right away. Some of it is healthy, but I kind of run high on the cynicism side...probably explains why I have a hard time with people. lol
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Originally Posted by ElvisInASkirt
I will overcome my fear of flying only by flying sober. In fact I'm looking into one of those flying courses. They are only £200.
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AprilMay,
In terms of other groups or people bring to convince you into the wrong solution, just try to look back on how smart you thought you were as a teenager. People who discover something for the first time, or find something that works for them, in their exuberance over their "unique" discovery often set out to change the world!
Recovery is, or should be, a very simple process for you once you have found what works for you. Anything that takes a great deal of effort on your part is less likely to work for you than something that comes naturally. There is such an "ease of use" with AVRT that it becomes effortless over time.
No justification is required once you consider yourself a non-drinker. It just is who you are.
FT
In terms of other groups or people bring to convince you into the wrong solution, just try to look back on how smart you thought you were as a teenager. People who discover something for the first time, or find something that works for them, in their exuberance over their "unique" discovery often set out to change the world!
Recovery is, or should be, a very simple process for you once you have found what works for you. Anything that takes a great deal of effort on your part is less likely to work for you than something that comes naturally. There is such an "ease of use" with AVRT that it becomes effortless over time.
No justification is required once you consider yourself a non-drinker. It just is who you are.
FT
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Originally Posted by AprilMay1895
Well, coupled with a booze-damaged brain and the cynicism I've developed about recovery methods when I base them on my experience with **, I've managed to turn everything I read into rocket science. Rather than be open minded and accepting, I get overly cautious and think "What lies are they trying to make believe here?"
By all means trust your instincts. You don't need to be "open minded" and accepting. If something really doesn't make sense to you, then don't attempt to believe it. Part of the mythology of recovery is that quitting an addiction is an extremely difficult and complicated undertaking, a life-long struggle against the inevitable; a maze filled with land-mines. This isn't the case, and AVRT is just an attempt to simplify things, cut through the fog, and untangle the web, so to speak.
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Telling myself I should look at all recovery methods and pull together whatever I believe in and kick the rest to the curb really helped. I've always liked the idea of AVRT, it was just applying it to myself that was the issue at first. And who knows, maybe my Beast was trying to hide just how disgusting she really is...and that she really needs to buy a robe and dye those roots, jeeze. lol
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