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Addictive Voice Recognition Technique (AVRT) Discussion Part 2

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Addictive Voice Recognition Technique (AVRT) Discussion Part 2

Old 12-04-2011, 09:44 PM
  # 461 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by sobermax View Post
Since making my big plan I have

Been suspended from my job (and thankfully reinstated).
Found out that I am going to be a father for the first time.
Lost a large amount of money in a business deal.
Made contact with long-lost relatives. . . .
.
Wow, that's a lot of change, Sobermax! Sorry about the setbacks, but big congrats on soon becoming a new papa!
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Old 12-05-2011, 12:12 AM
  # 462 (permalink)  
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I like this bit in the RR book. "don't congratulate yourself for abstinence, or expect others to do so. Is it really remarkable or cause for celebration that you have been acting responsibly?"

Saying that, I AM amazed that I'm not drinking, and it's been so simple (not always easy, but simple!)

Last edited by lostbutterfly; 12-05-2011 at 12:16 AM. Reason: added
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Old 12-05-2011, 03:54 AM
  # 463 (permalink)  
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Smile beast

Originally Posted by Terminally Unique View Post
Welcome.

Please don't take this as a prediction of doom or as advice not to use this if it works for you, but this approach, variously called "playing the tape through," "seeing it through," or "thinking through the drink," when viewed through AVRT, brings up some questions.

  • The Beast doesn’t care in the least about your suffering, or where you might end up if you drink or use again. At best, all it can imagine is the pleasure derived from drinking/using, and at worst, it views drinking/using as necessary to survival itself. As such, scary scenarios won't have any effect on its agenda at all, and it will still want to indulge regardless.

  • There is a good possibility that over time, you will start to forget the bad stuff and why you quit in the first place. Seeing it through is essentially entering into negotiations with the Beast, which will necessarily downplay the bad stuff you imagine and instead come up with its own scenarios of blissful, intoxicated pleasure.

  • Seeing it through brings into question the finality of the Big Plan. If you have made a Big Plan, you have decided not only never to drink or use again, but also to never to consider the possibility of doing so again. If you really aren’t going to drink/use again, and will never change your mind, why see it through? Why focus on "what if" when never would be more in line with the Big Plan?
Hi TU, or should i call you jack?, you sound so much like jack trimpey,haha,i don't think i explained myself properly,i don't just rely on avrt, i don't agree with a lot of what trimpey has to say,i've made up a mishmash of ways that keep me sober,it was pointed out to me by another person that i had been using avrt without knowing it, i read the book later, all i'm really doing is what the majority of people do that stop drinking or drugging (just stop), i don't ever want to rely on anything to keep me sober, including avrt, as for playing the tape?, i use this in all areas of my life, this has worked for me for nearly 4 years so i don't plan to change it, i have no fears of ever drinking again, i'm very happy with my life sober.

Good luck to you.
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Old 12-05-2011, 05:45 AM
  # 464 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by avrtisian View Post
as for playing the tape?, i use this in all areas of my life, this has worked for me for nearly 4 years so i don't plan to change it, i have no fears of ever drinking again, i'm very happy with my life sober.
Carry on, then.
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Old 12-05-2011, 06:32 AM
  # 465 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by lostbutterfly View Post
I like this bit in the RR book. "don't congratulate yourself for abstinence, or expect others to do so. Is it really remarkable or cause for celebration that you have been acting responsibly?"
haha This is a good point! I think after we all battle with the addiction so much before AVRT it seems like we should get some sort of medal of honor for the battle but really, what do we want? Flowers and balloons for deciding to stop ruining our own lives and the lives of others around us?

Sometimes I really am amazed that I was able to turn 180 degrees from my recovery group views...with lots of help from TU and everyone here though. I think I hated TU for a while because he kept sending deprogramming links and even worse, asked me if I actually read them. lol

avrtisian, I suspected for a while too that TU might be Jack Trimpey or a Jack Trimpey minion. Or maybe Trimpey has a team of highly trained AVRT'ers that go about spreading the word....or maybe I just watch too many movies. haha
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Old 12-05-2011, 01:16 PM
  # 466 (permalink)  
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ha ha, me too. But he is far too polite!
Anyway, between this thread and Jack's book, I have been saved years, if not a life time, of struggle with alcohol.
I actually spoke to my teenage son and daughter about the technique, as obviously they noticed I wasn't drinking. They used to hate me going to meetings. I am a single mum, work full time and three meetings a week plus sponsor meetings -it put a huge amount of strain on my family life. They just couldn't understand why I had to keep going when I hadn't had a drink in months.
I also felt as though I had to protect myself from life as I was in recovery, fragile. I have dependents, I don't have the luxury of molly coddling myself for months just because I drank too much for too long and neglected my responsibilities. I need to behave like a grown up NOW!
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Old 12-05-2011, 01:17 PM
  # 467 (permalink)  
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sorry, double post. Stubby fingers on a touch screen.
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Old 12-05-2011, 02:23 PM
  # 468 (permalink)  
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Good lord, every time I come to this thread I am blinded by KITTENS AND HORSES, and sometimes MUPPETS!

Well, hey, here's my two cents, coming from a minimalist. I don't bother with any tape replaying, preferring to keep my approach as simple as possible.

When I quit drinking, I became a non-drinker. I wouldn't pick up a drink now with any more likelihood than I would pick up a pack of smokes at the store. I've never been a smoker, so that's an easy move. I approach alcohol the same way. There is no arguing with who I am, which is a non-drinker. I do what other non-drinkers do. Alcohol is no more important to me than any other object in the store or the restaurant or wherever. I don't avoid it. Why should I? I've had alcoholic drinks "accidentally" served to me at various functions, but I don't drink them. There is no temptation, given enough practice.

I love the bumper sticker "What Would Jesus Do?" Or better still, "WWJD?", for those who want to belong to a secret club.

My bumper sticker (figuratively of course) says "WWANDD?" (for those unenlightened, "What would a non-drinker do?")

No arguments, no issues, no problem.

These words are spoke by a long term non-drinker, however, which is my disclaimer. I realize that none of this is easy for anyone who had battled alcoholism. But it truly is a re-definition of self to become a non-drinker. I've always viewed it that way, and it works for me.

(Now, my AV attempted to replay the tape over and over and over again, for probably the first three years after I became a non-drinker. I just found the "off" switch pretty fast.)

FT
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Old 12-05-2011, 02:39 PM
  # 469 (permalink)  
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and sometimes MUPPETS!
Haters gonna hate, FT... lol

D
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Old 12-05-2011, 03:36 PM
  # 470 (permalink)  
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You can't deny the peaceful, happy, fluffiness of the cutest kitten IN THE WORLD! lol I over-do the cat stuff on purpose because I'm totally allergic to them. Cyber kitties are all I have! lol

But I, too, confess to the dirty deed of tape playing when I should just be dissociating. I do it to see if I actually have the urge to drink after considering all the consequences. I don't know why I do that though. You know, I think part of me is giving into my AV when I do that. It's saying, "Just check again...go see if you're ready to change your mind yet. Do you STILL think drinking is no longer worth it?"
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Old 12-06-2011, 12:17 AM
  # 471 (permalink)  
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See, there is always something to learn. I thought playing the tape was 'me' showing myself why I don't drink now. But actually, I suppose I am entering into a bit of a debate with the beast.
I gave up smoking cigarettes years ago, by myself (couldn't tell you how) and went from smoking cannabis every day for years to nothing overnight . Just got fed up with it.
Alcohol proved far more difficult, and I don't know why. Perhaps it just had a more powerful 'pleasure' affect.
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Old 12-06-2011, 09:22 AM
  # 472 (permalink)  
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Thank you!

Originally Posted by Terminally Unique View Post
Carry on, then.
Thank you sir ,haha
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Old 12-06-2011, 02:28 PM
  # 473 (permalink)  
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Going to the work Christmas dinner on Friday. It is in a pub. I am actually looking forward to it. I used to hate going out because I couldn't drink 'properly'. Now, I don't have to worry about any of that stuff. Just need to keep an ear out for beast activity. No doubt it will be working hard! Like you said drivenheart, wish it would find another hobby!
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Old 12-06-2011, 05:12 PM
  # 474 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by DrivenHeart85 View Post
You can't deny the peaceful, happy, fluffiness of the cutest kitten IN THE WORLD! lol I over-do the cat stuff on purpose because I'm totally allergic to them. Cyber kitties are all I have! lol

But I, too, confess to the dirty deed of tape playing when I should just be dissociating. I do it to see if I actually have the urge to drink after considering all the consequences. I don't know why I do that though. You know, I think part of me is giving into my AV when I do that. It's saying, "Just check again...go see if you're ready to change your mind yet. Do you STILL think drinking is no longer worth it?"
Yes, I WANT THAT KITTY!

I've often warned my husband that if it weren't for him, I'd be one of those old ladies on the "Hoarders" shows, knee deep in cats. I get my "cat fix" from three all black kitties we took in as rescues, after our "main kitty" died of old age. That kitty never allowed other cats to come in the house, but I did restrain myself at three.

Hey, not to let this thread devolve into old lady "cat talk", I just had to pipe up and encourage those of you who are facing holiday parties, office or otherwise, where alcohol will be served. It truly is liberating to be able to go to those things and not feel the least bit deprived because other people "get" to drink.

It's been a long time for me, but I also remember the feeling of not being able to drink "properly" at those things. No one else but me would be wanting that second, third, or fourth glass of wine, so I would solve the "problem" by drinking plenty before I got there. I'd already have my buzz on so that I would look like a "normal" drinker instead of the lush I was.

These days, I don't need to go to those functions anymore since I work for myself, but I remember them well. I've never been fond of New Year's Eve anyway, fearing the other drivers on the road.

FT
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Old 12-06-2011, 08:38 PM
  # 475 (permalink)  
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I happened upon this thread last night and thought AVRT sounded very interesting. So I checked out the site and read through the Crash Course. I have to admit I've been thinking about it all day. It empowered me. I've always been bothered by the powerlessness of other recovery programs - this made sense to me. My husband quit smoking using Allan Carr's book and has become quite a preacher on the subject. He's helped many other people quit as well. AVRT sounds very similar (as some of you have pointed out) so I know it works. I'm doing my best to stop feeding my beast and start feeding myself. Anyway, hello y'all and thank you...(especially Terminally Unique.)
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Old 12-07-2011, 12:21 AM
  # 476 (permalink)  
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welcome sunnyjens.
Yes FT, drinking before you go out, slowing down while you are out, and itching to get home so you can carry on with what you started. How complicated, and what a waste of a night out. Much simpler to not drink! And I will be able to drive the babysitter home, safely.
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Old 12-07-2011, 10:03 AM
  # 477 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by sunnyjens View Post
I happened upon this thread last night and thought AVRT sounded very interesting. So I checked out the site and read through the Crash Course. I have to admit I've been thinking about it all day. It empowered me.
Welcome. If you liked the crash course, do read the "RR: The New Cure" book, which is far more comprehensive.
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Old 12-07-2011, 10:30 AM
  # 478 (permalink)  
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Let me just say how happy I am to have found this thread. I have been drinking almost every night for close to 20 years.

For the last year, I have realized that this is not healthy, and will not lead to the sort of future I want for myself and my family. I have been casually investigating ways to get rid of the desire or need to drink. Among many other negative side-effects, it is keeping me from enjoying social events because I get irritated when it is only appropriate to drink a glass of wine or two. I can't wait to get through, so I can head back back home where the amount I choose to drink isn't contrary to the protocol of the situation. It distracts me from being able to enjoy interesting conversations, and truly connecting with others. There have been more serious consequences caused by drinking, but they have luckily been few and far between. i.e. arrested for DUI, making an ass of myself in public, loss of peak job performance.

My wife is a light drinker, and thinks I drink too much, but I haven't let her influence the amount I choose to drink, because I want to be the one to make that determination.

I am stubborn. With the "beast" technique, it was easy for me to not pour a drink last night. First time that has happened in over a year. By simply imagining that some external force was making me do it, I was able to be more stubborn than it was, and was very satisfied when I went to bed that the beast didn't win.

I haven't read the RR book, but plan to order it. I just read this very thread from the beginning, and was well enough equipped to not drink for one night. I plan to do the same thing tonight.

Thanks for all of your participation on the thread, because through this dialouge I learned enough to do something that I thought nearly impossible just days ago.
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Old 12-07-2011, 10:47 AM
  # 479 (permalink)  
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I am really intrigued by this thread and will definitely be following it. Today is only my 7th day sober, but I am already incorporating some of what I have learned on this thread, and the earlier thread, into my daily life. Every time the AV comes into my head I just ignore it and realize that it only has a destructive purpose.

I already used something similiar to this technique to stop eating meat which worked, so I am hoping this will work as well.

Thanks to everyone for such great information and insight. It has really helped me.
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Old 12-07-2011, 12:58 PM
  # 480 (permalink)  
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Plugging Beast Holes

In reading posts from "newbies" about their initial plans to beat their addiction, many times it is apparent that they are conflicted, and that their Beast is trying to leave the door open to the possibility of future drinking/using. I found the following "examples of subtle and not-so-subtle 'holes' in an effective plan to defeat substance addiction" in the JRR which sums up the common stall tactics used fairly well. If you want to do things right, be sure to plug those holes first.

The central principle of AVRT is that the Beast, with its amorphous AV, can drive a beer truck through a pinhole. A Big Plan is recovery with an attitude. It is a tough action on a tough problem. For most people attempting self-recovery, the Big Plan of Rational Recovery appears too stringent, too cut-and-dried, too simple, too total, too unfair. But AVRT self-aims upon those complaints, identifying them and their emotional counterparts as the Beast itself.

Beast Holes
  1. I will quit for (any length of time).
  2. I will quit drinking/using one substance but continue drinking/using another substance.
  3. I will drink/use less.
  4. I will drink/use only at certain times, places.
Excerpted from "AVRTips: Bonsai People and The Ice Man Scam"
The Journal of Rational Recovery,Nov. - Dec., 1997, Vol. 10, Iss. 2
Copyright © Jack Trimpey and Lois Trimpey

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