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Addictive Voice Recognition Technique (AVRT) Discussion

Old 10-04-2011, 06:51 AM
  # 481 (permalink)  
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Kanamit, are you applying the Big Plan to more than one thing right now? If so, how many and how is it going? If you don't mind my asking. I'm curious to see if there's a point of breaking if you overdo it, or if it's just simply taking back your control and that's that.
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Old 10-04-2011, 07:04 AM
  # 482 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by kanamit View Post
Finally, this AVRT is powerful. Please, admins/mods, do not close or delete this thread. It's changed my life for the better; I'm sure I'm not the only one.
The power of AVRT lies in its simplicity and ruthless focus on the target; it is fashioned after the same narrow, unyielding mindset driving addiction itself, only in reverse. AVRT requires a change in perspective and attitude, to be sure, and many people will be deterred by detours into pop-psychology and other feel-good activities, but if you set aside your "feelings" for a bit, AVRT will chew through everything holding you back from recovery.
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Old 10-04-2011, 07:14 AM
  # 483 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by kanamit View Post
Finally, this AVRT is powerful. Please, admins/mods, do not close or delete this thread. It's changed my life for the better; I'm sure I'm not the only one.
I'll second that!
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Old 10-04-2011, 07:25 AM
  # 484 (permalink)  
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Although highly simplified, this should illustrate the similarities in methodology between addiction and AVRT.


ADDICTION:
  1. I drink/use.
  2. If not 1. (Example: "I really shouldn't.")
  3. Go to 1.

AVRT:
  1. I never drink/use.
  2. If not 1. (Example: "You can have just a little, just be very careful this time.")
  3. Go to 1.
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Old 10-04-2011, 07:29 AM
  # 485 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by AprilMay1895 View Post
Kanamit, are you applying the Big Plan to more than one thing right now? If so, how many and how is it going? If you don't mind my asking. I'm curious to see if there's a point of breaking if you overdo it, or if it's just simply taking back your control and that's that.
It seems like a lot but actually it's all things I have been striving to improve on for years. None of these were impacting my life as much as drinking though so that was first and foremost.

As I mentioned it also now covers caffeine which is no big deal but it has helped massively with my diet and exercise. I deliberately set the goals lower initially as I am relatively new to this but they will be tweaked in the future. Like I said, these things are not as clear cut as to drink or not to drink.

I didn't enter into these lightly. As I mentioned in my last post they were things I struggled with for a while. You know when you get a workman in to do a job on your house and he/she turns out to be so good you say, while you're here could you do that, that and that? They do and when you leave you have that contented feeling of getting more done that you'd hoped? Well, I came here thinking I might quit drinking for a time.

I found AVRT and left with that, and more.

By the way, these weren't just other things I added arbitrarily. They all relate to the same rationale for a Big Plan. I decided it was immoral to misuse myself and those around. I guess my Big Plan is totally selfish in that it will make me into a more confidant, fitter, happier, healthier person. I appreciate AVRT in itself does not guarantee any of these things but they are the logical result of such a lifestyle change.

Thanks again everyone, especially TU.
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Old 10-04-2011, 07:44 AM
  # 486 (permalink)  
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Thanks for the response kanamit! I was just curious, because I've been thinking about applying this to other areas too. Seems as though self-control and mind awareness has become a lost art in the American society in relation to many things other than just substance addiction. Seems it's easier to pick up 20 books with all different opposing theories than it is to just find the info to quit a bad habit directly and immediately.
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Old 10-04-2011, 11:52 AM
  # 487 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by kanamit View Post
Well, I came here thinking I might quit drinking for a time.

I found AVRT and left with that, and more.

Thanks again everyone, especially TU.
Thanks, kanamit. I don't have personal experience applying AVRT in the way that you are doing, so you may be able to help others with this.

To those of you who have not yet read the book, this can't be spoon-fed to you. You're not going to find many people able to teach AVRT, much less willing to do so. Most people who learn AVRT just forget all about "recovery" and get on with their lives, so it would be wise to view this thread as a free bonus, and not as a pre-requisite.

If you haven't read the book recently, do so, since you need a common frame of reference to be able to discuss it. It will cost you less than a six-pack of beer. This is no different from any other approach in that respect. SMART has its literature that you need to read, and so do the 12-Step groups. This is only logical.

You could certainly pay Jack Trimpey $1,000 for the in-person AVRT course if you really wanted to not read the book, and I'm certain that he is very good at teaching it, but come on, now.
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Old 10-04-2011, 12:19 PM
  # 488 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Terminally Unique View Post
I've said this before in this thread, in response to your inquiries, but you seem persistent.
I could speculate all day about how I seem to you or how you seem to me, but that doesn't strike me as conducive to civil conversation. This a long thread and people are prone to not remembering the answer to every post in the thread. I therefore asked again to refresh others' memory. I have no ulterior motive.

Originally Posted by Terminally Unique View Post
The disease concept is irrelevant to AVRT-based recovery, since AVRT is not based on medicine.
If the disease concept is irrelevant to AVRT, why does Rational Recovery devote any time to criticizing it?

Originally Posted by Terminally Unique View Post
Unless the disease concept becomes part of your AV, ie, "oh, well, I have a chronic, incurable, progressive, relapsing brain disease over which I am powerless, so I may as well give up trying to quit and just drink, drink, drink," then you can just forget about it entirely. If it does become part of your AV, however, it will necessarily get caught in the cross-hairs of AVRT.
Again, that is an interpretation of the disease model and not the disease model itself; Rational Recovery appears to deliberately conflate the two in order to criticize 12-step programs as mindlessly ideological "recoveryism".

Originally Posted by Terminally Unique View Post
In other words, you are saying the exact same thing, that the root cause of the problem is irrelevant to the solution. One need only be aware of the existence of a problem.
Except that cognitive-behavioral therapies do not completely deny that etiology is important or useful. You can treat the symptoms but that doesn't cure the underlying disease.

Originally Posted by Terminally Unique View Post
However, the addicted person is certainly already aware of the existence of a problem by the time they even consider quitting. If that were not the case, they wouldn't be trying to quit.
However, the addiction is very often problematic before the "addicted person" is aware it is.

Originally Posted by Terminally Unique View Post
That said, AVRT ≠ CBT.
Cognitive-behavioral therapies are a large class of therapies, including RET/REBT, MET, DBT, etc.. Although their approaches may differ widely, their conceptual framework are all essentially the same. They all use the awareness of undesirable thoughts (i.e., anxiogenic cognitions) to modify self-destructive actions (i.e., maladpative behavior patterns). AVRT fits this framework in the sense that it teaches the practitioner to recognize anxiogenic cognitions (i.e., the Addictive Voice) and avoid engaging in a maladaptive behaviors (e.g., drinking/using).
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Old 10-04-2011, 01:27 PM
  # 489 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by MickeyAnMeisce View Post
I could speculate all day about how I seem to you or how you seem to me, but that doesn't strike me as conducive to civil conversation. This a long thread and people are prone to not remembering the answer to every post in the thread. I therefore asked again to refresh others' memory. I have no ulterior motive.
You do seem to have a fascination with the disease concept of addiction, though. You have brought it up on multiple threads now.

Originally Posted by MickeyAnMeisce View Post
If the disease concept is irrelevant to AVRT, why does Rational Recovery devote any time to criticizing it?
Because it is crippling for many people, and until they discard it, they won't be able to move on. Most people who end up with RR have already tried other recovery methods that make use of the disease model, unsuccessfully.

BTW, "disease" has different meanings in recovery circles. Is it biological disease? Psychological disease? Spiritual disease? Sin disease? Which permutation are you referring to?

Originally Posted by MickeyAnMeisce View Post
Again, that is an interpretation of the disease model and not the disease model itself; Rational Recovery appears to deliberately conflate the two in order to criticize 12-step programs as mindlessly ideological "recoveryism".
Recoveryism is the state of unresolved addiction, when the problem drinking/using has been identified by the addicted person, and that person fails to take decisive action to end it (ie, quit forever). This phenomenon, of knowing you have to quit, but not quite getting around to it, while very common, is not limited to any particular program. In fact, since almost everyone goes through it before they finally quit, you might reasonably consider it a stage of addiction.

Originally Posted by MickeyAnMeisce View Post
Except that cognitive-behavioral therapies do not completely deny that etiology is important or useful. You can treat the symptoms but that doesn't cure the underlying disease.
If you are addicted to a substance, forsaking its use forever will usually take care of the problem quite well.

Originally Posted by MickeyAnMeisce View Post
However, the addiction is very often problematic before the "addicted person" is aware it is.
AVRT is a model of self-recovery, and cannot be "done to" someone else. If someone does not want to end their addiction, then that is that. If the time comes when they do actually want to end their addiction, then the may use AVRT to do so, but not before.
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Old 10-04-2011, 04:13 PM
  # 490 (permalink)  
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Beast talking in your head?

Post about IT, and we can expose IT.

You can then recognize IT.

Separate the Beast from everything in your life; isolate that SOB.

Once you do, IT is finished, and YOU are free.

So, go ahead, post the head noise...
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Old 10-04-2011, 04:36 PM
  # 491 (permalink)  
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Oh head noise you want, head noise you got. lol Right now it's "April, you are so stressed out this week. Doesn't it seem silly you're forcing this abstinence thing on you this week of all weeks??? You need to relax this weekend and just let it all go. You don't have the kind of personality that succeeds at this stuff anyway, I give you a week until you're back at it." Of course it's saying it in 1st person tho.
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Old 10-04-2011, 04:59 PM
  # 492 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Terminally Unique View Post
Post about IT, and we can expose IT.

You can then recognize IT.

Separate the Beast from everything in your life; isolate that SOB.

Once you do, IT is finished, and YOU are free.

So, go ahead, post the head noise...
I often get IT attacks after work ('go to the store, get other things you need so it's not a wasteful trip, then you'll be moderate, it'll relax you, you deserve it after a long day').
Not today, though, I've been furiously busy because of circumstance (after work as well as during), so I had no time for IT. I flung it aside and left it muttering somewhere at work. :rotfxko
In fact, I have more to do now...
Kanamit, I heard Fuhrman on PBS and thought he was great! I should look into it. He probably has a website.
Must scoot...
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Old 10-04-2011, 06:07 PM
  # 493 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Terminally Unique View Post
Just want to say that I'm more or less pleased with the way this thread has turned out, and that it hasn't devolved into an orgy of ********** HUUUGGGSSS }}}}} like many other threads. :-)

If the cut-off count from other threads is any indication, I reckon we'll be moving on to "Part 2" soon...
I think it's interesting that you think that this thread "hasn't devolved into an orgy of ********** HUUUGGGSSS }}}}} like many other threads", because very few post have not been "thanked", and most "thanked" posts are "thanked" by more than two posters.
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Old 10-04-2011, 06:46 PM
  # 494 (permalink)  
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Personally, I think it is appropriate to acknowledge that a post has been read by hitting the "Thanks" button. On the other hand, if I don't want to encourage a poster to continue on in like manner, I leave it alone. Too bad there's not an "I hate this post" button. I think SR had to make a choice on how many buttons to include at the bottom of each post. If you think that "Thanks" means "I agree" or is anything other than a heads up, I think you would be wrong.

FT
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Old 10-04-2011, 06:51 PM
  # 495 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by MickeyAnMeisce View Post
I think it's interesting that you think that this thread "hasn't devolved into an orgy of ********** HUUUGGGSSS }}}}} like many other threads", because very few post have not been "thanked", and most "thanked" posts are "thanked" by more than two posters.
By the way, if your intent is to engage other posters in dialog, try something more useful and relevant.

FT
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Old 10-04-2011, 07:08 PM
  # 496 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by failedtaper View Post
By the way, if your intent is to engage other posters in dialog, try something more useful and relevant.

FT
I have been making relevant posts, but you seems to have picked out the one with the least content and decided to make snarky comment about my posting in general.
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Old 10-04-2011, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by failedtaper View Post
Personally, I think it is appropriate to acknowledge that a post has been read by hitting the "Thanks" button. On the other hand, if I don't want to encourage a poster to continue on in like manner, I leave it alone. Too bad there's not an "I hate this post" button. I think SR had to make a choice on how many buttons to include at the bottom of each post. If you think that "Thanks" means "I agree" or is anything other than a heads up, I think you would be wrong.

FT
I'm just pointing that it seems like back-patting to me. People don't usually don't thank others for things they don't appreciate.
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Old 10-04-2011, 07:59 PM
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I think it's a good time to start Addictive Voice Recognition Technique (AVRT) Discussion Part 2.

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-part-2-a.html
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