AprilMay1895

Kanamit, are you applying the Big Plan to more than one thing right now? If so, how many and how is it going? If you don't mind my asking. I'm curious to see if there's a point of breaking if you overdo it, or if it's just simply taking back your control and that's that.

Terminally Unique

The power of AVRT lies in its simplicity and ruthless focus on the target; it is fashioned after the same narrow, unyielding mindset driving addiction itself, only in reverse. AVRT requires a change in perspective and attitude, to be sure, and many people will be deterred by detours into pop-psychology and other feel-good activities, but if you set aside your "feelings" for a bit, AVRT will chew through everything holding you back from recovery.

Stayinfree

I'll second that!

Terminally Unique

Although highly simplified, this should illustrate the similarities in methodology between addiction and AVRT.


ADDICTION:

1. I drink/use.
2. If not 1. (Example: "I really shouldn't.")
3. Go to 1.

AVRT:

1. I never drink/use.
2. If not 1. (Example: "You can have just a little, just be very careful this time.")
3. Go to 1.

kanamit

It seems like a lot but actually it's all things I have been striving to improve on for years. None of these were impacting my life as much as drinking though so that was first and foremost.

As I mentioned it also now covers caffeine which is no big deal but it has helped massively with my diet and exercise. I deliberately set the goals lower initially as I am relatively new to this but they will be tweaked in the future. Like I said, these things are not as clear cut as to drink or not to drink.

I didn't enter into these lightly. As I mentioned in my last post they were things I struggled with for a while. You know when you get a workman in to do a job on your house and he/she turns out to be so good you say, while you're here could you do that, that and that? They do and when you leave you have that contented feeling of getting more done that you'd hoped? Well, I came here thinking I might quit drinking for a time.

I found AVRT and left with that, and more.

By the way, these weren't just other things I added arbitrarily. They all relate to the same rationale for a Big Plan. I decided it was immoral to misuse myself and those around. I guess my Big Plan is totally selfish in that it will make me into a more confidant, fitter, happier, healthier person. I appreciate AVRT in itself does not guarantee any of these things but they are the logical result of such a lifestyle change.

Thanks again everyone, especially TU.

AprilMay1895

Thanks for the response kanamit! I was just curious, because I've been thinking about applying this to other areas too. Seems as though self-control and mind awareness has become a lost art in the American society in relation to many things other than just substance addiction. Seems it's easier to pick up 20 books with all different opposing theories than it is to just find the info to quit a bad habit directly and immediately.

Terminally Unique

Thanks, kanamit. I don't have personal experience applying AVRT in the way that you are doing, so you may be able to help others with this.

To those of you who have not yet read the book, this can't be spoon-fed to you. You're not going to find many people able to teach AVRT, much less willing to do so. Most people who learn AVRT just forget all about "recovery" and get on with their lives, so it would be wise to view this thread as a free bonus, and not as a pre-requisite.

If you haven't read the book recently, do so, since you need a common frame of reference to be able to discuss it. It will cost you less than a six-pack of beer. This is no different from any other approach in that respect. SMART has its literature that you need to read, and so do the 12-Step groups. This is only logical.

You could certainly pay Jack Trimpey $1,000 for the in-person AVRT course if you really wanted to not read the book, and I'm certain that he is very good at teaching it, but come on, now.

MickeyAnMeisce

I could speculate all day about how I seem to you or how you seem to me, but that doesn't strike me as conducive to civil conversation. This a long thread and people are prone to not remembering the answer to every post in the thread. I therefore asked again to refresh others' memory. I have no ulterior motive.

If the disease concept is irrelevant to AVRT, why does Rational Recovery devote any time to criticizing it?

Again, that is an interpretation of the disease model and not the disease model itself; Rational Recovery appears to deliberately conflate the two in order to criticize 12-step programs as mindlessly ideological "recoveryism".

Except that cognitive-behavioral therapies do not completely deny that etiology is important or useful. You can treat the symptoms but that doesn't cure the underlying disease.

However, the addiction is very often problematic before the "addicted person" is aware it is.

Cognitive-behavioral therapies are a large class of therapies, including RET/REBT, MET, DBT, etc.. Although their approaches may differ widely, their conceptual framework are all essentially the same. They all use the awareness of undesirable thoughts (i.e., anxiogenic cognitions) to modify self-destructive actions (i.e., maladpative behavior patterns). AVRT fits this framework in the sense that it teaches the practitioner to recognize anxiogenic cognitions (i.e., the Addictive Voice) and avoid engaging in a maladaptive behaviors (e.g., drinking/using).

Terminally Unique

You do seem to have a fascination with the disease concept of addiction, though. You have brought it up on multiple threads now.

Because it is crippling for many people, and until they discard it, they won't be able to move on. Most people who end up with RR have already tried other recovery methods that make use of the disease model, unsuccessfully.

BTW, "disease" has different meanings in recovery circles. Is it biological disease? Psychological disease? Spiritual disease? Sin disease? Which permutation are you referring to?

Recoveryism is the state of unresolved addiction, when the problem drinking/using has been identified by the addicted person, and that person fails to take decisive action to end it (ie, quit forever). This phenomenon, of knowing you have to quit, but not quite getting around to it, while very common, is not limited to any particular program. In fact, since almost everyone goes through it before they finally quit, you might reasonably consider it a stage of addiction.

If you are addicted to a substance, forsaking its use forever will usually take care of the problem quite well.

AVRT is a model of self-recovery, and cannot be "done to" someone else. If someone does not want to end their addiction, then that is that. If the time comes when they do actually want to end their addiction, then the may use AVRT to do so, but not before.

Terminally Unique

Post about IT, and we can expose IT.

You can then recognize IT.

Separate the Beast from everything in your life; isolate that SOB.

Once you do, IT is finished, and YOU are free.

So, go ahead, post the head noise...

AprilMay1895

Oh head noise you want, head noise you got. lol Right now it's "April, you are so stressed out this week. Doesn't it seem silly you're forcing this abstinence thing on you this week of all weeks??? You need to relax this weekend and just let it all go. You don't have the kind of personality that succeeds at this stuff anyway, I give you a week until you're back at it." Of course it's saying it in 1st person tho.

SunshineSally

I often get IT attacks after work ('go to the store, get other things you need so it's not a wasteful trip, then you'll be moderate, it'll relax you, you deserve it after a long day').
Not today, though, I've been furiously busy because of circumstance (after work as well as during), so I had no time for IT. I flung it aside and left it muttering somewhere at work. :rotfxko
In fact, I have more to do now...
Kanamit, I heard Fuhrman on PBS and thought he was great! I should look into it. He probably has a website.
Must scoot...

MickeyAnMeisce

I think it's interesting that you think that this thread "hasn't devolved into an orgy of ********** HUUUGGGSSS }}}}} like many other threads", because very few post have not been "thanked", and most "thanked" posts are "thanked" by more than two posters.

FT

Personally, I think it is appropriate to acknowledge that a post has been read by hitting the "Thanks" button. On the other hand, if I don't want to encourage a poster to continue on in like manner, I leave it alone. Too bad there's not an "I hate this post" button. I think SR had to make a choice on how many buttons to include at the bottom of each post. If you think that "Thanks" means "I agree" or is anything other than a heads up, I think you would be wrong.

FT

FT

By the way, if your intent is to engage other posters in dialog, try something more useful and relevant.

FT

MickeyAnMeisce

I have been making relevant posts, but you seems to have picked out the one with the least content and decided to make snarky comment about my posting in general.

MickeyAnMeisce

I'm just pointing that it seems like back-patting to me. People don't usually don't thank others for things they don't appreciate.

Morning Glory

I think it's a good time to start Addictive Voice Recognition Technique (AVRT) Discussion Part 2.

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-part-2-a.html