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Addictive Voice Recognition Technique (AVRT) Discussion

Old 08-13-2011, 08:00 AM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by newwings View Post
Reading number 6 out loud doesn't give me anxiety, it makes me feel free....

In four months, I am so pleased to embrace number 6 for the peace of mind it gives me.
Yes, there is that, too! Once you fully internalize it, you do realize that you are finally free. RR calls it the "Abstinence Commitment Effect" (ACE).
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Old 08-13-2011, 08:06 AM
  # 22 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by newwings View Post
I'm not working AA or any other program, because I got what I needed from the book this time. However..I'm feeling like I need a bit more in my life right now, so I'm spending time on SR and I've recently volunteered for some charity work. I'm also working out more to get my body as fit as my mind feels, and getting back into my art again. That, to me, feels like RECOVERY (and a pretty rational one!).
That is understandable. Part of what I keep trying to tell people on here is that AVRT is not a "program" - beyond the insistence on lifetime abstinence, it is not another design for living or a new way of life. It can keep you sober as a stone, but you will still have to find something to do with the time that you formerly spent drinking or using. Personally, I prefer having that choice, though.
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Old 08-13-2011, 10:51 AM
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When I say 6 I feel a real pang of doubt coming up from my chest. I just stay still when this happens and feel it rather than react to it. Feels like I'm shining headlights on a fox that's running from the light of my consciousness.

If I do this enough I will feel euphoric when there's no response from inside. If I fail to catch the doubt as a seed it grows and can lead to some ideas of drinking that don't feel like they are from me and I feel sad. Then I understand it's the whole me/beast thing. In order to be happy I have to commit to never drinking again or changing my mind.

I've got a cost benefit analysis in regards to remaining sober. I have 24 reasons to stay sober and 0 that suggest changing my mind. When I look at this I feel excellent. Tingles all over.

Now the only challenge tonight is not murdering my neighbour who is having a house party next door. I have the window open so I can hate on them internally for being drunken asshats. They always end up fighting at the end of the night anyway. What fun.
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Old 08-13-2011, 01:58 PM
  # 24 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by ElvisInASkirt View Post
When I say 6 I feel a real pang of doubt coming up from my chest. I just stay still when this happens and feel it rather than react to it. Feels like I'm shining headlights on a fox that's running from the light of my consciousness.

If I do this enough I will feel euphoric when there's no response from inside. If I fail to catch the doubt as a seed it grows and can lead to some ideas of drinking that don't feel like they are from me and I feel sad. Then I understand it's the whole me/beast thing.
You're getting the hang of it. Just recognize all self-doubt as the Addictive Voice. Remember, the Addictive Voice is "any thinking, feeling, or imagery that supports, or even suggests, your future use of alcohol or drugs, ever."

Doubt is supporting the future use of alcohol or drugs, and by definition, fits the bill. If you can recognize it for what it is - an expression of the Beast - and dissociate from it, you will be fine. Over time, it will settle down.

Being a bit of a nerd, I like the following programmatic description myself:

1. I never drink/use.
2. IF ("ANY contradiction of 1") (ex: "you can have just a little, if you're careful.")
3. GO TO 1.
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Old 08-13-2011, 03:03 PM
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saying number six makes me feel powerful and free. I said it almost 5 years ago out of desperation and I meant it...that was long before I had ever heard of AVRT. I continue to have the normal struggles in my life in areas (parenting, relationships,etc) but never a struggle about wanting to drink/ drug/ escape. If I ever have a passing thought about that, it's just that...fleeting. Freedom is definitely powerful.

peace,
SD
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Old 08-13-2011, 04:15 PM
  # 26 (permalink)  
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Is this basically mind over matter?
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Old 08-13-2011, 06:47 PM
  # 27 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by chicory View Post
Is this basically mind over matter?
Yes and no. AVRT is a set of instructions on how to objectify the desire for the pleasure produced by various substances. In psychology, this would be called a dissociative technique. Subjectively, if you are able to objectify the desire to drink/use, and then dissociate from it, not drinking/using does not feel like "white knuckling" or struggling against the inevitable.

Jack Trimpey, the founder of Rational Recovery, discovered this technique while working with clients, but he makes no claims of having invented it. In effect, Trimpey asked a few hundred people who quit on their own, without any help, precisely how they did it, and then wrote down the instructions. He then refined them over the years by observing how people responded to those instructions. The result was AVRT.

Some people, even today, inadvertently discover the technique on their own. AVRT is, in effect, the way that people have naturally recovered from addiction throughout human history, since before addiction treatment or recovery groups ever existed. The benefit of learning about it from Rational Recovery is that you don't have to waste time learning it through trial and error, as Trimpey has effectively synthesized the technique from hundreds of people who did just that and describes it in detail. It allows you to quit your addictions, in private, without group meetings or therapy sessions.

As for my experience, AVRT is extremely powerful, and I was able to quit my addiction to alcohol after having spent thousands of dollars on addictions counseling, and much time in recovery groups. Some people seem to "get it" faster than I did, though, and I have seen people who were relapsing over and over again just "snap out of it" after learning the technique.

Rational Recovery has a "Crash Course on AVRT" for free on their web site, but it is nowhere near as comprehensive as the book listed in the first post of this thread. If you are interested, I have several links I can send you - just contact me via Private Message.
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Old 08-14-2011, 01:15 AM
  # 28 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by BodhiTree View Post
Does anyone have experience using AVRT for food addictions? I vowed to give up sugar when I quit drinking and frankly, giving up sugar has been much more difficult for me. You may be thinking that sugar is not a big deal and I know that for some people it's not. But for me it is a problem that interferes with my life and has become an unhealthy way of self-medicating anxiety and stess. It is a monkey i want off my back. Sorry if this is OT.
No, but I do know several people who have battled their food addictions with SMART Recovery, which is a kissing cousin to AVRT. You can find them at SMART Recovery® | Self Help for Alcoholism & Addiction .

Good luck!
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Old 08-14-2011, 03:10 AM
  # 29 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by AVRT View Post
You're getting the hang of it. Just recognize all self-doubt as the Addictive Voice. Remember, the Addictive Voice is "any thinking, feeling, or imagery that supports, or even suggests, your future use of alcohol or drugs, ever."

Doubt is supporting the future use of alcohol or drugs, and by definition, fits the bill. If you can recognize it for what it is - an expression of the Beast - and dissociate from it, you will be fine. Over time, it will settle down.

Being a bit of a nerd, I like the following programmatic description myself:

1. I never drink/use.
2. IF ("ANY contradiction of 1") (ex: "you can have just a little, if you're careful.")
3. GO TO 1.
Sounds good to me.

I realize too that the tracking of days is part of the Beast's game.

I can hear this sometimes.

Beast : Oh you've went 42 days then. You've another 10,000 to go. Think you can do that? [shrinks internally].

Me : [Zen like clarity in realizing what's happening here] **** off.
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Old 08-14-2011, 05:24 AM
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telling the beast to **** off is awesome elvis! Love that.

I don't count days per se...but I am proud of the almost 5 years I have. I suppose I collect time maybe the same way I collect shoes...brings me what I call "a tiny joy". The fact that some say that's "good" and some say that's "bad" or some say that's "right" or some say it's "wrong" is of no consequence to me. My love of shoes....another addiction? LOL who knows...
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Old 08-14-2011, 06:15 AM
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Thanks for starting this thread, AVRT. I generally think of my addictive voice as "not me," and firmly tell it to eff off. Works great.
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Old 08-14-2011, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by SoberJennie View Post
I've been reading Trimpey's book Taming the Feast Beast... it's an interesting read. I'm about halfway through it. He applies AVRT to overeating. It doesn't seem as "together" as RR, and AVRT (the person) mentioned to me that he wrote this before RR, so it makes more sense knowing that. I like where he's going with it so far...

I ate lots of sugar and drank lots of caffeine during my first 30 days of sobriety. Funny enough, as I was going into my 5th week of sobriety I thought... hmm, I wanna try applying AVRT to eating. So I asked AVRT (the person) if you can do that... or if it's been done. He told me about the Feast Beast book.

Well... before I even bought it on Amazon I corrected my eating habits on my own. So... here I am with this book AFTER I quit the sugar on my own. I'm only eating natural sugar in fruit now... and not very much of that. I've cut way back on the caffeine as well. Dropped 5 lbs so far... about 12 lbs to go before I reach my ideal weight. The book is nice, but I already made up my mind to do this before I got the book in my hands!

It seems that I quit both drinking & incorrect eating just weeks before reading both RR and Feast Beast... not sure if there's something to that or not. But having those books does help.

Thanks, Jennie. Like you, I just quit drinking on my own using pretty much AVRT though I didn't know it as such. I'm reading Rational Recovery right now and I'm subbing in "sugar" and "eat" for "alcohol" and "drink" as I'm reading. I'm not finding that book all the helpful so far but I'm going to finish it. I appreciate your thoughts on the Feast Beast, too.

Congratulations on all your progress!!!
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Old 08-14-2011, 01:28 PM
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Absent Jack Trimpey's personal political philosophy, how does AVRT differ from other behavioral therapies?
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Old 08-14-2011, 02:34 PM
  # 34 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by MickeyAnMeisce View Post
Absent Jack Trimpey's personal political philosophy, how does AVRT differ from other behavioral therapies?
Summarized from what Trimpey wrote in the JRR, September - October, 1993, comparing AVRT with REB/REBT:

The logic of AVRT is a recipe for recovery from addiction, not from life. What remains is an abstinent lifestyle, for better or for worse. Addiction is not an irrational idea or a symptom of one. Addiction is an indisputable fact. The charm of AVRT is it's irrationality.

The Big Plan of AVRT is absolutistic, unreasoning, rigid, autocratic, and fanatical. AVRT calls for abstinence - here, now, and forever - and then shows exactly how to commit intellectual violence on the addictive mentality called the Beast. It is a potent dissociative technique based not on reason or disputation, but by declaration.
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Old 08-14-2011, 02:41 PM
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It should be noted that SMART Recovery was once the Rational Recovery Self-Help Network, back when Rational Recovery used RET/REBT, and before it got rid of meetings. SMART still lists "The Small Book" as recommended reading. For those that want "old-school" Rational Recovery, with the ABCs, Cost-Benefit Analyses, and some newer things, SMART would be the place to get it.

Trimpey may now be saying that RET/REBT is insufficient for overcoming addictions, but the fact remains that he is the one primarily responsible for elevating it to the status of addiction treatment in the first place. I find RET/REBT useful as a means to personal change and growth, but too soft on addiction. Many people use it, but I needed something a little more hard core.
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Old 08-14-2011, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by AVRT
I find RET useful as a means to personal change and growth, but too soft on addiction - I needed something a little more hard core.
I think I agree Yes, I feel very much the same.
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Old 08-14-2011, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by BodhiTree
Thanks, Jennie. Like you, I just quit drinking on my own using pretty much AVRT though I didn't know it as such.
Oh, nice to find someone else who has!

Have you found since you've quit that other things in you life that you were having a hard time changing have become much easier to deal with? A lot of my fear of change and the procrastination associated with that are seeming to lessen.
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Old 08-14-2011, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by SoberJennie View Post
Oh, nice to find someone else who has!

Have you found since you've quit that other things in you life that you were having a hard time changing have become much easier to deal with? A lot of my fear of change and the procrastination associated with that are seeming to lessen.
Yes! And now I'm like "why the hell was this such a big deal before?"
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Old 08-14-2011, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by BodhiTree View Post
Yes! And now I'm like "why the hell was this such a big deal before?"
Yes!!! Same here, exactly Life is so much more interesting... and I have so much hope.
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Old 08-14-2011, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by SoberJennie View Post
Have you found since you've quit that other things in you life that you were having a hard time changing have become much easier to deal with? A lot of my fear of change and the procrastination associated with that are seeming to lessen.
It's certainly difficult to get things done when doing those things would cut into your drinking or using time. :-)
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