recycle

I am not sure I wanna play vinepest. I have done phorum filosophy before and it takes a lot of effort to keep it egoless. The point of my post was that Zencat asked for proof, and we accept a lot of a priori knowledge which is unprovable - consciousness was just the first thing that came to mind. The acceptance of the unprovability of some knowledge is definitely part of my recovery.

If you want to resort to inductive reason to deconstruct my post, go for it. For my part, inductive thought never produces rigorous knowledge outside of a formal system and Kant still pwns Hume. I’ll let you have the last word if you want…

Take care and welcome to secular town.

Zencat

Ok maybe I have a better question: How would one go about supporting the claim that God exist?

vinepest

I really don't see how it can ever be supported. I certainly can't imagine any evidence which would convince me that a supernatural creator-deity exists.

recycle

Exactly the same way you make a claim that God does not exist: “I do/do not believe in God.” The claims are epistemologically identical. Neither outcome has a manifestation in the material world so both are unfalsifiable hypotheses and not within the realm of questions that can be answer by math or science. All the great proofs, countless pages of rhetoric come down to either a logic error or an assumption.

If you press currently popular atheists like Daniel Dennett or Richard Dawkins they will admit what bridges the final gap between the limits of reason and belief, is their opinion that it is better for humanity if God does not exist. This approach is very similar to Kant’s moral argument for the existence of God. Although Kant’s argument falls short for me, the preparatory in the work defining the limits of metaphysical gymnastics is flipping brilliant.

The only logically rigorous position is agnosticism. Unfortunately, agnosticism is often characterized as a wishy-washy position somewhere on a continuum between theism and atheism. I do not think that is the case at all. To my mind it is a separate path that recognizes the limitations of my human mind and the nature of truth. I lead a rich spiritual life generally filled with wonder, without harboring delusions about religion or reason.

This is about as concise as I can make it. There is lots I could drone on about trying to prove what a smart mofo I am, but I skip it. These are probably better explored over a cup of coffee anyway…

Take care.

Murray4x5

I'm about 99.9999999999999999999% Atheist, which makes me an Agnostic I guess.

I have no trouble believing this Universe (and maybe all the other Universe's spread out in all directions forever) and everything within it came about through natural processes.

To say there is no God requires a level of faith equal to saying there is a God. Both are equally impossible concepts for me to wholeheartedly believe.

Murray

Zencat

Thanks recycle.

I tend to get hanged up on the God thing when it gets brought up in the Secular Connections Forum. For me I really need a sanctuary away from God conversations. Ah but such as life...can't always get what I want .

Time to buckle down and stick harder with my non-theist position...

...and now for a little humor to lighten the mood.

recycle

Didn't meant to poop in the Zendo.

Maybe we should talk about something non-controversial and resolvable like whether freewill exists?

LaFemme

Sorry Zen and my bad...I saw an interesting article and wanted the opinion of people who I respect...but you are right this section should be a haven from God talk

Recycle...of course free will exists...don't be a ninny

In the past I've seen articles on evidencze supporting meditation assisting in sobriety. I see a lot of peeps talking about it here but haven't seen the empirical back up...anyone know of anything?

Zencat

Its all good LF

Recycle...LOL.

Meditation and empirical evidence? Not sure, but for me meditation relieves stress better that the...



And less stress is good for my recovery.

recycle

Oh yeah! Well, well prove it!

Kidding, kidding, I couldn't stop myself

Psychology Today did an article on meditation and addiction. Meh – I am going to sound like a negative Nelly, but I have not read many ‘science of meditation’ articles that are worth the time. There appear to be some bias issues with almost all of them I have read.