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What is Atheism?

Old 04-30-2010, 07:34 AM
  # 41 (permalink)  
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Do we have a coincidence here or not?

I was looking at someone's avatar and then noticed a join date in 2008 which is when I joined. Then I looked at the join dates of everyone on this page which led me to the look at the first page too.
All but 3 posters to this thread joined SR in 2008.
Maybe I noticed it because I started a "Class of" thread a couple weeks ago for the year of 2008 (you've no doubt seen the "Class of - some month" threads which are quite good for people at the same stage of the sobriety struggle to gather).

So then as I was thinking that maybe this thread appealed to a lot of 2008'ers for that same reason of being at more or less at the same stage of our sobriety struggle....or is it just a coincidence?....... and then I looked at the avatar that had made me notice the 2008 join date and then I noticed it was the avatar used by nocoincidence56.

Now my head hurts trying to decide if I'm into coincidence-theism, coincidence-agnosticism, coincidence-atheism, or coincidence-apatheism?
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Old 04-30-2010, 07:57 AM
  # 42 (permalink)  
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Hee hee - We ALL over analyze! Great example. But you may have something there!
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Old 04-30-2010, 10:06 AM
  # 43 (permalink)  
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Dang this thread blew up.



Originally Posted by Alizerin View Post
I'll add that a rather annoying common misperception about Atheists is that we have had an event or event(s) in our life that shaped this belief. It's annoying because it consistantly comes up and isn't true. Nobody's pain is felt any more or less than a believer - in recovery especially.

Certain events in my life lead me to question my beliefs. When I got honest with myself about being gay it was off to the races. I questioned everything about me in an attempt to be honest with myself...and in doing so I questioned my religious beliefs. Everything regarding theology made less sense until I reached a point when I didn't believe at all.

Questioning my beliefs has been and will be the most important thing of my life. I'm proud of myself for challenging my perceptions and what I was force-fed to believe.
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Old 04-30-2010, 10:20 AM
  # 44 (permalink)  
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Bamboozle,

I think you missed the post where I said this?:

"I did the same. Joined a church and for a year was quite involved with it. All the while, just growing as an Atheist. I tried a few of them. I had to go through religion to come out of it. To have a concrete foundation for my own belief.

I needed to annihilate some doubts. Just as Christians or other God centered folks do. does."
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Old 04-30-2010, 10:26 AM
  # 45 (permalink)  
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I probably did.
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Old 04-30-2010, 04:33 PM
  # 46 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by gneiss View Post
To confuse things even farther I think that makes me an agnostic agnostic apathist. Meaning I don't know if there's a God, and I'm not sure if I care.

*rim shot*

<pause for applause>

Thanks, I'll be here all week. Don't forget to tip your waitress.


Originally Posted by joinedintime View Post
Litterally LOL'd on that one.

so....apathesim
it that being apathetic about belief in a supernatural deity?
as in, yeah there might be a god, there might not, I don't care

but I know there's a Mr. Clapton

well, I decided to look it up first before hitting the ol' submit post buttom and sure as hell, well I'm not so sure there's a hell, but I digress....not only is that a real word (maybe you all knew that and I'm the one that thought someone accidentally typo'd it up here) but get this - there is a church of apathism and it says you might already be a member

for those that are curious, this is from the top of their home page:

There are four main roots of theology (we'll ignore the various ascetic, moral, dogmatic, etc. branches of theology and stick to the roots): theism, agnosticism, atheism, and apatheism - all of which answer to ideas of the existence of supreme beings. Simply put, theists don't deny, agnostics don't know, atheists don't believe, and apatheists don't care about the existence of gods.

Apatheists neither believe in nor deny the existence of gods. They simply aren't interested one way or the other. To Apatheists, the "god question" is profoundly unimportant. Even if there were a blatant, undisputed answer to the question, we would most likely go on living our lives the same ways we already do.
Reminds me of a friend of mine, who I'll call BG. Born Jewish, BG became atheist and never entered a synagogue after his Bar Mitzvah. Then he went over to Soviet Russia for work. He was invited to a Yom Kippur service and being in a place where one must hide and sneak to attend services BG felt as an American he should go. His attitude was that his Russian friend saw that he was living in the country of freedom of religion. BG felt that if he turned the invitation down would be extremely rude. He knew that if the police found out about the service, all the Soviets would be arrested. Yet, not only would BG be safe as an American, the others risked imprisonment simply for praying with their fellow Jews on the highest of holy days.

BG said that although he still doesn't believe in a god, he felt a presence of something special in that synagogue. Not necessarily a HP, but something. He now considers himself a Agnostic atheist.
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Old 04-30-2010, 05:14 PM
  # 47 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Alera View Post
[img]

BG said that although he still doesn't believe in a god, he felt a presence of something special in that synagogue. Not necessarily a HP, but something. He now considers himself a Agnostic atheist.
Wow Alera. Weird. Here's one I don't tell many people:

Eight years ago I spent a summer studying in Russia. One weekend my study abroad group took a trip to a small city south of Moscow. Leo Tolstoy's estate happens to be there; that was our excuse so our instructors would give us a day off class to go. We stopped by the main Orthodox temple in town. The temple had been burned, looted, and used as a grain silo under the Soviet regime and was under renovation to fix the damage. We were basically just having fun, we bought some prayer candles and lit them. And at some point I felt something I can't really explain. Like a compulsion to pray, sort of, or like someone was standing behind me. I've never been sure what to think of it. It wasn't enough to keep me believing in God, but it still keeps me from completely writing off the idea.
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Old 05-01-2010, 02:48 AM
  # 48 (permalink)  
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Old 05-01-2010, 07:43 AM
  # 49 (permalink)  
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<Not gonna say it! not gonna say it!> :-) :-)
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Old 05-01-2010, 09:21 AM
  # 50 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by windysan View Post
Okay, I'm not a total atheist ...for I do believe in the the magically deliciousness of the Lucky Charms.
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Old 05-01-2010, 09:30 AM
  # 51 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Alizerin View Post
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<Not gonna say it! not gonna say it!> :-) :-)
not gonna sat what??
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Old 05-01-2010, 09:43 AM
  # 52 (permalink)  
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*facepalm*

But then... they are magically delicious.

LOL
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Old 05-02-2010, 06:17 AM
  # 53 (permalink)  
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They're always after me Lucky Charms !

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Old 05-03-2010, 08:29 PM
  # 54 (permalink)  
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Late to this thread for sure,

I thought this was covered in Intro to Philosophy courses around the world forever. On the question of the existence of "anything " in the universe, only three honest solutions are logical. Something does exist, something doesnt exist , or; .... we don't know if it exist . Agnos ....unknowing

Say, I ask about the existence of a red headed blackbird ? If there's no imperical evidence from science, (ornathologist ) to support their existence , then I'm left with only two choices; .....I can say , no the red headed blackbird does not exist( ie. no historical evidence) , or I can honestly take the third position, and say just because we don't have evidence , I will take the position that I am still not convinced either way, .......I just honestly don't know. ...... Like ,maybe we should give the birdwatchers more time to look or something.


If I could care less about the question of the damn bird's existence ( which by the way , I could care less ) My personal apathy won't effect the possible answer or solution to the problem. The one of the existence of said bird.

So watered down Athiesm, so that it's personally palettable, is like watered down Theism. Both probably just as ill-conceived as misunderstanding and watering down Agnosticsism.

Schools of thought , like Eastern or Western religions, really have little to do with "discussions" on the earlier , more fundamental questions of existence.

Just my take ; ya know . Things I thought I learned from a library book
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Old 05-03-2010, 09:30 PM
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logical positivism, no?
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Old 05-03-2010, 11:54 PM
  # 56 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by topspin View Post
So watered down Athiesm, so that it's personally palettable, is like watered down Theism. Both probably just as ill-conceived as misunderstanding and watering down Agnosticsism.

Schools of thought , like Eastern or Western religions, really have little to do with "discussions" on the earlier , more fundamental questions of existence.

Just my take ; ya know . Things I thought I learned from a library book
Indeed, these things are likely taught in Intro Philosophy. Somehow I sneaked out of two undergrad degrees without taking it, and I think I'm a better person for it. Have you met philosophy majors? (Just kidding. Love all you philosophs out there. I'll go back to my lair in the natural sciences now).

Topspin, I'm not sure how your comments about watering down theism, atheism, and/or agnosticism apply to our above comments. Please explain?
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Old 05-04-2010, 02:24 AM
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Thanks for asking , Gneiss,

Those comments I made were just some ideas I've had about Athiesm and Agnosticism mostly. I, like you, find it totally condescending for folks to consider either of these two positions to be the result of something traumatic that's happened in someones life, ..... it's like saying someone raised in the fundamentalist South had some trauma , since they became a Budhist as a mature rational adult. Straight Hogwash !

My education is very, very limited; and no, I don't know any philosophy majors.
Wish I did though. I love it, although know so little. Just things I've read from the library.

I'm an outsider commercial glass artist, but did apprentice and later contracted with several glass studios starting in 81. So, really , I'm as far away from academia as a person could get, ... I guess. Actually , I'm a third generation street kid. <smile>

I do believe that a persons background has a lot to do with how their tranformation to a different belief system as an adult works out. I met two older professors, ....married, both practicing Budhists; and their story gave me a little insight into my own. Mary grew up with parents who were Unitarian,& Agnostic , and she told me it was the most natural thing in the world to embrace Budhism, while , for her husband it was such an "upheaval " , since his background was more of a traditional Protestant (Lutheran or Baptist I think he was ? ) Consequently he had many fundamental beliefs that changed radically when he began to practice Budhism.

My experience was more like her husbands. Being immersed in a culture of religiousity as a child and later drawing my own conclusions about a reality or (world view ) that is basically 100% opposite of what I was "exposed to" ( I consider it more like; straight up indoctrination ).......that transformative process was an "upheaval " for me too, I guess.


Maybe I'm too sensitive about Athiesm and Agnostiscism, since I agree with both positions wholeheartily. And they should never be confused with each other. That they sometimes become interchangable in conversation really minimizes both positions , don't ya think ?
Practicing acceptance , and (usually) having more of a dog-like personality anyway, I applaud and accept the majoritys' belief of Theism ; ...with all the trimmings. I honestly believe they believe what they profess. Religions to me are like periods of art, or music. How can we not love different schools, genres ......for what they are. A sort of artful literature ......
that has riddled mankind with blood and more blood.

Now , damn I'm rambling on and almost forgot your question. I wasn't implying anyone was "watering down " anything in this thread, although sometimes I'm easily confused if I read things too literally.





Growing up in the Jim Crow South has most likely influenced my sensitivity to rascism, sexcism, , and classcism. Basically , I despise bullies,!!!!!!

......and I love SR esp. the Secular Forum

I'm need to start a new thread , "what is Secularism " and when I get confused , talk of "watering something down " LOL

peace ...and love

I'm a whole 30 days clean and sober today,

ya'll give out a 30 day cyber chip or sumpin ? <smiling big >

please forgive all (sp?)
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Old 05-04-2010, 04:13 AM
  # 58 (permalink)  
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There is such a thing as an "outsider commercial glass artist"? You are kidding us, ain't ya?
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Old 05-04-2010, 07:07 AM
  # 59 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by topspin View Post
If I could care less about the question of the damn bird's existence ( which by the way , I could care less )...
So you could care less, meaning you care a lot, or you care some, but could care less?

Or did you mean to say you couldn't care less?
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Old 05-04-2010, 01:03 PM
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Basically I'm not a Buddhist because Buddhism has "beliefs" that go beyond there is no mighty God.

I stay away from any kind of belief system that says: "Okay, so this is what is going on around here".
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