God...
Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 271
Wow. It started out sounding intelligent.
For whom? And why are you posting *here* when there are multiple 12-step recovery groups on this very site. Why *here*?
<snip of ya-da-ya-da>
I am the one who brought it up, and really there's no need to explain it to me. That it involves Freud and and psychology is kind of a no-brainer (they don't call it "Jungian psychology" for nothing). How you define sociology is your business.
Really? I found his dream interpretation stuff to be 99% bunk. I guess that shared understanding isn't so shared as one might hope.
And keeps a venue available for you to push AA in the one forum on this site where that is off topic. Got it. Bye.
Originally Posted by ElegantlyWasted 
Thought this post died... Must be philosophical Thursday!
My line of thinking was more along the lines of how the concept of god and spirituality are interwoven in culture and evolve as we come to a better understanding of our world. As societies modernized the isms too precedent over organized religion as the primary means for ordering societies, fascism, capitalism, communism etc, while religion remained a choice as a spiritual outlet. Specifically applied to modern addiction recovery; I think it means that everyone has choice to figure out how fill the void/ rebuild oneself without their doc. It implies different paths for different people. It's why AA works.
My line of thinking was more along the lines of how the concept of god and spirituality are interwoven in culture and evolve as we come to a better understanding of our world. As societies modernized the isms too precedent over organized religion as the primary means for ordering societies, fascism, capitalism, communism etc, while religion remained a choice as a spiritual outlet. Specifically applied to modern addiction recovery; I think it means that everyone has choice to figure out how fill the void/ rebuild oneself without their doc. It implies different paths for different people. It's why AA works.
<snip of ya-da-ya-da>
The Jungian concept of collective conscious involves more than I could explain with any brevity, but includes aspects of budhism, Freudian psychology, sociology and many other things.
It's sort of an overlap or shared understanding among people in general or a subgroup in specific. His dream analysis is both fun and informative.
Sorry for rambling, reading everyones posts helps me keep it real and clarifies my own thoughts.
Laozi Old Man
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 6,665
Originally Posted by jimhere
I'm a God person, but lately I've realized that I don't believe in "God" per se.
Does that make me a pantheist?
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: France
Posts: 783
Originally Posted by ElegantlyWasted
Could it be that "God", hp or spirituality in general is simply becomming aware of our consciousness and emotions? A shrink mentioned "The god reflex" a while ago.. It seems to make sense to me. Interested on the collective consciousness take.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 165
Originally Posted by californiapoppy
I have no idea what "the god reflex" is, maybe you'll enlighten me?
Laozi Old Man
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 6,665
Originally Posted by AnthonyV
The "God Reflex" is the tendency for humans through out history to attribute anything that couldn't be easily explained as being the result of God. For example, early man hears thunder, thinks that must be from God.
Blu**ed Lines...A ClockWork SR
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: AZ
Posts: 2,529
My apologies if any content in any of my posts here could possibly in any way be construed as a back door advocacy for AA as the one true path. I believe my post in this thread that mentioned AA was focused on the secular aspects that made it work for some people. Try to understand before you hate. It's sad when people project their own beliefs on a sound bite without making an effort to understand the context.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhere
I'm a God person, but lately I've realized that I don't believe in "God" per se.
I've heard that Keller's restaurant "Per Se" is the most religious experience obtainable by man. Smile...
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhere
I'm a God person, but lately I've realized that I don't believe in "God" per se.
I've heard that Keller's restaurant "Per Se" is the most religious experience obtainable by man. Smile...
Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: north yorkshire, england
Posts: 1,891
I don't hate either you, or aa, however this forum is specifically here for the discussion of alternatives to 12 step recovery.
Any discussion of aa (in a secular sense or not) is therefore as inappropriate as me going to the christianity forum to talk about my atheism, it's not that the conversation isn't worth having but that it is in the wrong place.
The discussion of higher powers, ie what can or can't qualify, or what god means, is moot because the whole idea of this place is that we use different methods.
If you want to continue to debate the nature of god i suggest you either try the 12 step athiest and agnostics forum or the spirituality forum.
Any discussion of aa (in a secular sense or not) is therefore as inappropriate as me going to the christianity forum to talk about my atheism, it's not that the conversation isn't worth having but that it is in the wrong place.
The discussion of higher powers, ie what can or can't qualify, or what god means, is moot because the whole idea of this place is that we use different methods.
If you want to continue to debate the nature of god i suggest you either try the 12 step athiest and agnostics forum or the spirituality forum.
Blu**ed Lines...A ClockWork SR
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: AZ
Posts: 2,529
You have the power of choice... You can choose not to participate in this thread. As it still exists the mods have found it appropriate. Hope you're getting something positive out of it; I know I have. This thread was established to explore the secular elements of successful recovery programs and has not deviated from that focus. I'm all for constructive debate, but if you find some elements of this thread thatoffensive simply don't post. You position as to why the original post should not exist indicatedyou either didn't read it or you don't understand it. Out of 30+ posts the unspeakable was meantioned only once; someone zeroed in on it taking it out of context.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: north yorkshire, england
Posts: 1,891
Oh so I am either an idiot, in that I couldn't understand your opening post, or I am just a hater.
There are many ways to justify your foray into a secular arena to discuss the nature of god but why?
Just why?
There is no secular concept of god unless you want to fudge it so much that the very word becomes meaningless, calling your thread god is either misguided or mischevious, and I didn't say I had no interest in participating in the thread or that I found it offensive, I said it is in the wrong place.
And you don't get to choose what context your words are perceived in, you are using a common internet defence of claiming what you said didn't mean what you said, along with the fact that you have already called people haters, for no discernable reason other than that they disagree with you, I am getting an image of you being a skilled internet debator.
I may be completely wrong, I often am, but hey thats my opinion, and if I wanted to debate semantics I would find a place where it didn't matter so much.
There are many ways to justify your foray into a secular arena to discuss the nature of god but why?
Just why?
There is no secular concept of god unless you want to fudge it so much that the very word becomes meaningless, calling your thread god is either misguided or mischevious, and I didn't say I had no interest in participating in the thread or that I found it offensive, I said it is in the wrong place.
And you don't get to choose what context your words are perceived in, you are using a common internet defence of claiming what you said didn't mean what you said, along with the fact that you have already called people haters, for no discernable reason other than that they disagree with you, I am getting an image of you being a skilled internet debator.
I may be completely wrong, I often am, but hey thats my opinion, and if I wanted to debate semantics I would find a place where it didn't matter so much.
I got nothin'
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: My house.
Posts: 4,890
Here is MG's sticky post in its entirety:
This thread was okay until:
We have been told repeatedly to avoid topics about AA. Perhaps you didn't know. I couldn't help but notice how that remark was slid in there. This sort of discussion would be best carried out in the spiritual section, the regular 12-step section, or even the secular 12-step section.
We would love to hear how your secular recovery is working for you.
Originally Posted by Morning Glory
This forum is a non-12-step forum. It is open to all our members who approach their life with secular viewpoints.
Discussions are fine. Respectful disagreements are fine too. I consider a discussion a conversation when all parties are listening to each other and sharing ideas. Respectful disagreements are disagreements that still allow the other person their own opinion. Discussions are showing an interest in understanding why another feels a certain way. We listen intently as they explain themselves and are free to admit any error in our own ways of thinking. A discussion is a cooperative effort and seeks resolution resulting in a peaceful end even when there are disagreements. Discussions help all to gain a better understanding of both sides of the issue.
Debates [for the purpose of this forum] are when posters only want to express themselves and discredit the opinions of others in a disrespectful way. Attacking someone else's ideas is not appropriate. Defending a belief that doesn't relate to the purpose or topics of this forum is not appropriate. Posts that flame or mock another recovery method, spiritual belief, sexual preference, race, disability, mental illness, moderator, or member etc.. are inappropriate. Off site links with similar content are also inappropriate.
This forum is for topics that are not spiritual or faith based. We have 2 other forums for those topics. Members who have spiritual beliefs are welcomed to post here as long as they stay on topic.
Links to noncommercial recovery sites and informational and educational material are permitted.
Links to other recovery message boards and commercial recovery sites are not permitted.
Discussions are fine. Respectful disagreements are fine too. I consider a discussion a conversation when all parties are listening to each other and sharing ideas. Respectful disagreements are disagreements that still allow the other person their own opinion. Discussions are showing an interest in understanding why another feels a certain way. We listen intently as they explain themselves and are free to admit any error in our own ways of thinking. A discussion is a cooperative effort and seeks resolution resulting in a peaceful end even when there are disagreements. Discussions help all to gain a better understanding of both sides of the issue.
Debates [for the purpose of this forum] are when posters only want to express themselves and discredit the opinions of others in a disrespectful way. Attacking someone else's ideas is not appropriate. Defending a belief that doesn't relate to the purpose or topics of this forum is not appropriate. Posts that flame or mock another recovery method, spiritual belief, sexual preference, race, disability, mental illness, moderator, or member etc.. are inappropriate. Off site links with similar content are also inappropriate.
This forum is for topics that are not spiritual or faith based. We have 2 other forums for those topics. Members who have spiritual beliefs are welcomed to post here as long as they stay on topic.
Links to noncommercial recovery sites and informational and educational material are permitted.
Links to other recovery message boards and commercial recovery sites are not permitted.
This thread was okay until:
Originally Posted by ElegantlyWasted
Thought this post died... Must be philosophical Thursday!
My line of thinking was more along the lines of how the concept of god and spirituality are interwoven in culture and evolve as we come to a better understanding of our world. As societies modernized the isms too precedent over organized religion as the primary means for ordering societies, fascism, capitalism, communism etc, while religion remained a choice as a spiritual outlet. Specifically applied to modern addiction recovery; I think it means that everyone has choice to figure out how fill the void/ rebuild oneself without their doc. It implies different paths for different people. It's why AA works. AA teaches a discipline that ultimately enhances personal growth and awareness. It's spiritual, which validates our emotions as experiences sober, and open ended enough to allow a person to grow as an individual. The god reflex, then could be considered a necessary human quality for social order, whether channeled into denying, believing, or embracing the isms. The Jungian concept of collective conscious involves more than I could explain with any brevity, but includes aspects of budhism, Freudian psychology, sociology and many other things. It's sort of an overlap or shared understanding among people in general or a subgroup in specific. His dream analysis is both fun and informative. Sorry for rambling, reading everyones posts helps me keep it real and clarifies my own thoughts. Humbly on day 93.
My line of thinking was more along the lines of how the concept of god and spirituality are interwoven in culture and evolve as we come to a better understanding of our world. As societies modernized the isms too precedent over organized religion as the primary means for ordering societies, fascism, capitalism, communism etc, while religion remained a choice as a spiritual outlet. Specifically applied to modern addiction recovery; I think it means that everyone has choice to figure out how fill the void/ rebuild oneself without their doc. It implies different paths for different people. It's why AA works. AA teaches a discipline that ultimately enhances personal growth and awareness. It's spiritual, which validates our emotions as experiences sober, and open ended enough to allow a person to grow as an individual. The god reflex, then could be considered a necessary human quality for social order, whether channeled into denying, believing, or embracing the isms. The Jungian concept of collective conscious involves more than I could explain with any brevity, but includes aspects of budhism, Freudian psychology, sociology and many other things. It's sort of an overlap or shared understanding among people in general or a subgroup in specific. His dream analysis is both fun and informative. Sorry for rambling, reading everyones posts helps me keep it real and clarifies my own thoughts. Humbly on day 93.
We have been told repeatedly to avoid topics about AA. Perhaps you didn't know. I couldn't help but notice how that remark was slid in there. This sort of discussion would be best carried out in the spiritual section, the regular 12-step section, or even the secular 12-step section.
We would love to hear how your secular recovery is working for you.
Reach Out and Touch Faith
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: On a Sailboat
Posts: 3,871
This is not the forum to discuss the 12-Steps. Please continue to read and post on the other threads regarding your positive recovery experiences in Secular programs. Thanks.
I'm locking this on my way out.
I'm locking this on my way out.
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