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thank heavens thinking is not a crime. or is it?

Old 10-06-2009, 05:53 AM
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thank heavens thinking is not a crime. or is it?

Thought itself is indeed powerful.
It presupposes all kinetic being.
Every action taken existed first in consciousness.
People in recovery generally agree that dangerous thinking
will, without interference, lead to dangerous actions.
I am so grateful to be able to use this forum interactively
To express my thoughts, however safe or dangerous,
To engage my intellect in a healthy manner.

I have made the mistake of allowing my intellect to take control of my actions.
I have also made the mistake of allowing logic alone to make decisions.
It seems that I have actually made a lot of mistakes, learning things "the hard way"
I would like to pose a question to the community:

Dangerous thoughts are not dangerous for having, but for the potential dangerous action that may result from thinking. Right? Or is having a dangerous thought in and of itself dangerous?

I just wanted to open this topic to discussion, for lack of a better forum to discuss such topics, I chose this forum, apologies if it is miscategirzed.

Timothy Leary, Ph.D., R.I.P. spent quite a long time in prison
For possessing a (arguably placed by police) marijuana cigarette
And in court sentencing it was argued that his thoughts were dangerous
To society. Everyone knows he was in jail for promoting LSD,
Although that was never a criminal charge. They framed him for a small drug crime, and gave him a riduculous sentence for it.
An example of how corrupt goverment can be, given the authority to
Dictate who is to be allowed to live in our society based on what they believe and publish.

We live in a hive-mind society. Going against the grain, even if sometimes trendy, can lead us into problems. Thinking for yourself in recovery is even frowned upon.
Its even worse in some countries, I'm sure.
But will there ever be a "information police" or a "thought police?"

Does anyone here have emotional issues about how our society works
And what lack of encouragement we have for members of society to think for themselves, and to question authority? What people perceive as my "paranoia" or their conclusions about me spending too much time on the internet,or crazy conspiracy theories that I entertain longer than most people because I like to think things through and not immediately discredit and idea or theory based only its apparent insanity? Remember how insane they thought conpernicus was when he proposed that the earth revolved around thenot the other way around..

Everytime I get into discussions about these topics with people in person,
I end up feeling very disgruntled and confused. Maybe my views are too radical,
But maybe they aren't being respected either. if Freedom of mind and thought is not honored within society, freedom of action won't be either.

What this boils down to is that I don't trust society. Democracy is not all that great, because even if you have it working as its supposed to, the majority is still making decisions for me. I think the majority of people are generally uneducated and cannot think for themselves.

At least I'm sober and coherent today, thinking about all of this. Maybe all the LSD I took is having its way with me hahaha. But I just wanted to rant and get things off my chest here. Feel free to reply. I just don't want an argument. Please do not argue with me, I usually win LOL
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Old 10-06-2009, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by emmanuel2012 View Post
I think the majority of people are generally uneducated and cannot think for themselves.
My opinion, here...

Nah...most people can think for themselves. It comes down to a choice. It's much more natural for people to appeal to authority...so that's what most do.

Educated...ah, there's that word again. I'm not sure what it means. Formally? Informally? By who and for what reason? Education can't always be trusted.

I've met plenty of intelligent people who have less formal education than I and they can debate me under the table.


Dangerous thoughts...

...I can only answer this in regards to recovery. Otherwise the subject is too broad and I'll go off on a dozen tangents.

My dangerous thoughts can lead to relapse. It's a warning system. I don't ever have to act upon my thoughts. I acknowledge my thoughts and let them go.

I get stronger in my resolve to remain sober.
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Old 10-06-2009, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by emmanuel2012 View Post

I would like to pose a question to the community:

Dangerous thoughts are not dangerous for having, but for the potential dangerous action that may result from thinking. Right? Or is having a dangerous thought in and of itself dangerous?
I don't think thoughts are dangerous. Lately I've been working on an novel wherein some people and a dog die, and humanity is threatened. It takes a lot of thought to put together a story (and even to read one), but we don't consider that dangerous, not normally anyway.

If Poe's Imp of the Perverse were to strike and I was entertaining the idea of doing something that I thought was dangerous, how would I counter it? With another thought.

I'm wary of people who tend toward irrationality, but in every case that I can think of, the irrationality is the result of faulty belief, not of thought per se.

We live in a hive-mind society. Going against the grain, even if sometimes trendy, can lead us into problems. Thinking for yourself in recovery is even frowned upon.
The whole "you can't trust your brain" stuff bothers me too. If you aren't doing your own thinking, someone else is doing it for you. Doesn't sound like a great idea to me.

Its even worse in some countries, I'm sure.
But will there ever be a "information police" or a "thought police?"
You mean in the free world? I think it exists, at least to an extent. There is the case of the woman who was charged with obscenity for writing fictional stories of horrible, unthinkable stuff. She had a website and required a $10 credit card charge to safeguard against children accessing her site. She ended up serving one year under "house arrest." There is a great deal of obscenity on the internet, but the case involved only fictional stories.

Does anyone here have emotional issues about how our society works
And what lack of encouragement we have for members of society to think for themselves, and to question authority? What people perceive as my "paranoia" or their conclusions about me spending too much time on the internet,or crazy conspiracy theories that I entertain longer than most people because I like to think things through and not immediately discredit and idea or theory based only its apparent insanity? Remember how insane they thought conpernicus was when he proposed that the earth revolved around thenot the other way around..
The problem of "the good of society" vs. "the good of the individual" has been around since . . . probably since the infancy of culture. I watched my in-laws go through a series of conspiracy theories that led to, among other things, moving into a cave at one point, moving to an aleutian island with nothing but a camper, refusing any medical care or education for the their six children, etc. In the end, even if the conspiracies had been real, thinking so wasn't worth the cost. I'm seeing my brother starting to slide into that same mindset, and it's very sad because he's obviously so unhappy. I think we're wired to be hyper-alert and wary of danger, and when bears, wolves, snakes and disease were common killers, it served us well. Now, not so much. It's as likely to make us crazy as not.
Everytime I get into discussions about these topics with people in person,
I end up feeling very disgruntled and confused. Maybe my views are too radical,
But maybe they aren't being respected either. if Freedom of mind and thought is not honored within society, freedom of action won't be either.
I don't know that either ever really was. It's not really the purpose of society, I don't think. Society exists to further itself, which is in many ways very good for the individual and in other ways not so good.

What this boils down to is that I don't trust society. Democracy is not all that great, because even if you have it working as its supposed to, the majority is still making decisions for me. I think the majority of people are generally uneducated and cannot think for themselves.
You're in good company. That's what Plato's Republic was all about, and it was written about 400 B.C.E.

At least I'm sober and coherent today, thinking about all of this. Maybe all the LSD I took is having its way with me hahaha. But I just wanted to rant and get things off my chest here. Feel free to reply. I just don't want an argument. Please do not argue with me, I usually win LOL.
I usually get censored - LOL!
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Old 10-06-2009, 09:02 AM
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Personally, I have been going against he grain for most of my life. It's never really caused a problem for me because I have chosen not to make it an issue. I am of the attitude of whatever works for each individual to make them feel happy/fulfilled/content. I make decisions for myself and my family based on what works best for us, and if someone chooses to do things a different way, that's their right. If people don't approve of things I do, their entitled to their opinion. There is not, in my opinion, one "society" that dictates to us what we should be/think/do. There are some voices in this world that are louder than others, and it can cause the quiet voices to feel a bit underappreciated sometimes, but I have found that by seeking out situations which suit me and my beliefs, I tend to encounter many like minded individuals.

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Old 10-06-2009, 01:06 PM
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Old 10-06-2009, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by emmanuel2012 View Post
What this boils down to is that I don't trust society. Democracy is not all that great, because even if you have it working as its supposed to, the majority is still making decisions for me. I think the majority of people are generally uneducated and cannot think for themselves.
Adding to this, I think many people ‘think’ and act out of deep rooted animal instincts and impulses, as humans are in fact, animals,. I think this is too often overlooked: we ‘claim’ to be such an intelligent and advanced species, and yet the rates or violent crime, war, famine and disease continue unabated, despite our having the means to prevent them. I think a lot of our behavior is not so much guided by carefully laid plans, well thought out courses of action, but moment to moment decisions, made in the present, and linked to the most primal emotions and drives: fear, survival, hunger, sex, thirst, and so forth. Even the very well educated seem unable to escape these: Indeed, if one is hungry and lacking shelter, it is doubtful they will have the ability and means to be very well educated.

The world, to me, is largely a mess, and any form of government seems frightening in some or other way. As you say, in a democracy, what if the majority is misguided, cruel or dumb? What is there to protect the rights of the minority? I have always scoffed at the US and it’s idea of being free: Free from what, exactly? And what would absolute ‘freedom’ even look like? As time goes on, it is harder and harder to say: though I am happy not to live in a regime such as China or Iran, to be certain.

H. Pup
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Old 10-06-2009, 09:49 PM
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Yeah, it could be a lot worse, and I suppose full out and out freedom is, too much for any anarchist to ask. But before I place that label on my ideology of choice, I would like to point out its fundamental linkage with the ideology of capitalism. The little kid anarchists running amock in my city streets protesting just for change at the g20 summit aren't even awake enough to realize that they aren't really anarchists, but rather socialists, advocating a socialist agenda. But free markets cant exist without a relatiely lassie fair enconomy. The federal government is a republic, and only works as a republic***

It IS a balancing act between individual rights and group consensus,
And I feel that its horribly off center in favor of the group, society, the "greater good" and what have you.
And mostly to blame, I'm my opinion is the god bellief, for propogating this ideology that some greater good, ie society/god, which dosnt really exist except as a mental construct**, tell us for thousands of years to accept "gods will", usually in the form of a dictators/conquistadors will disguised as a greater good over our individual will, taking our land, our brides(in dark ages), our income(tax), and most commonly now in the form of taking our liberties.I just don't know if its getting anywhere better.
Evolution of consciousness, my form of spiritual progress, seems to be grinded to a halt in this Christi-Grid, a resitance, or abandoning of human evolution, just because some guy named jesus savedus all 2000 years ago. The worlds third eye has been blind for that long, and its started to see things again.

So, now that I've bashed christanity here as well for stopping evolution,
and 2 billion counts of mind control manipulation attacks*
For spiritual slavery in the form of a "greater good",
I should stop and say thanks to all who have replied, this is an awesome discussion.
Please feel free to continue if u have anything else to share.

*if you're a christian, please don't offense. Jesus loves me too, I'm not blaming jesus, just his followers

**there are only 3 types of relationships between objects: 1 to 1, 1 to many, and many to manyy. Since there is no "one" that is every one of us, there are *many* 1-to-many relationships between all of the worlds people to *that many* different "societies", what u have is a billion different ideas about what society is, and that's all. One Society is an illusion. One nation is an illusion. One round planetary sphere we share, is all we can agree on. I bet some people still think the world is pretty flat, though, and would argue at that

***The federal government was designed to be a republic as much as it was a democracy:
"And to the republic, for which it stands, one nation..under blah. Blah blah, for all"

Last edited by emmanuel2012; 10-06-2009 at 10:04 PM.
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Old 10-06-2009, 10:00 PM
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OT but is anyone else chuckling about a post here starting out "thank heavens"?
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Old 10-06-2009, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by dgillz View Post
OT but is anyone else chuckling about a post here starting out "thank heavens"?
Well, thank "god" is out of the question here.
Thank jesus, umm for what.
Thank demons?

Thank yourself, for reading this far.
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Old 10-06-2009, 10:22 PM
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darn, I must have offended at least half of you in that last reply.
Well, at least my brain works.
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Old 10-06-2009, 11:07 PM
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"On this planet, anything we think may be held against us." -- Mr. Spock, ST



--Outvoid--
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Old 10-07-2009, 03:02 AM
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Thank yourself, for reading this far.
I swear I will, so help me me.
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Old 10-07-2009, 03:14 AM
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Originally Posted by dgillz View Post
I swear I will, so help me me.
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Old 10-07-2009, 05:52 AM
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Originally Posted by HuskyPup View Post
Adding to this, I think many people ‘think’ and act out of deep rooted animal instincts and impulses, as humans are in fact, animals,. I think this is too often overlooked: we ‘claim’ to be such an intelligent and advanced species, and yet the rates or violent crime, war, famine and disease continue unabated, despite our having the means to prevent them. I think a lot of our behavior is not so much guided by carefully laid plans, well thought out courses of action, but moment to moment decisions, made in the present, and linked to the most primal emotions and drives: fear, survival, hunger, sex, thirst, and so forth. Even the very well educated seem unable to escape these: Indeed, if one is hungry and lacking shelter, it is doubtful they will have the ability and means to be very well educated.

Agreed.


It's clear from my posts that I have my own issues with religion, but much of the chaos going on in this world has to do with power, control, and money. People seem to care more about these things than anything else no matter what their thoughts are concerning theism. I think that in certain scenarios religion plays a role...but so does nationalism and other forms of propaganda. These things are merely vehicles for people to use to get the power, money, and control they desire.
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Old 10-07-2009, 06:04 AM
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Originally Posted by emmanuel2012 View Post
One round planetary sphere we share, is all we can agree on. I bet some people still think the world is pretty flat, though, and would argue at that
Here you go: theflatearthsociety.org - Index
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Old 11-07-2009, 08:36 PM
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There is nothing wrong with thinking too much so long as you remember 1 thing;

ALL THINKING IS DELUSIONAL
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Old 11-08-2009, 03:14 AM
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Speak for yourself.
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Old 11-08-2009, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Boleo View Post
There is nothing wrong with thinking too much so long as you remember 1 thing;

ALL THINKING IS DELUSIONAL
Umm, is that supposed to be a joke?? I don't get it.
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Old 11-09-2009, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by tyler View Post
Umm, is that supposed to be a joke?? I don't get it.
I am only repeating what Siddhartha Gautama, Lao Tzu, Soren Kirkegaard and Nisargadatta Maharaj had to say about thinking.
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Old 11-09-2009, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Boleo View Post
I am only repeating what Siddhartha Gautama, Lao Tzu, Soren Kirkegaard and Nisargadatta Maharaj had to say about thinking.
I don't know who any of those people are...but OK. Not something I personally agree with, but that's OK too.
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