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How do you know it's the end or the beginning?

Old 05-27-2009, 08:56 PM
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How do you know it's the end or the beginning?

I ask this question in all seriousness. How you do distinguish between the two? Or is it too hard to do? I'm at either point now and I am not sure. OTOH, I have to be a realist. I did something today I've never done - tell my brother I need to talk to him. For me to reach out to a member of my family is just not the norm. I have no idea what to say to him. Of course, there is the obvious reason - I need an executor to my will. Then again, maybe I am just sick of living this way. Maybe both. I must be the slowest person *on the planet* to realize I am dealing with a very serious issue.

I really screwed up today. Was on an anti-psychotic for a few days and stopped, per my Dr. saying I could take it that way, but maybe it was too heavy duty for me (not sure if that is why I did what I did today and no one is a Dr. here and not seeking medical advice). My dad takes it for Alzheimers. So for a few days I was on two anti-psychotics, an anti-depressant, a mood stablizer, and anti anxiety agent. No wonder I am a nutcase. I am a walking pharmacy. Perhaps my meds are causing a problem, and I took an email today perhaps in the wrong way and blew off my treatment group. I wasn't altogether altogether.

I can't give up but have screwed up and don't know how to fix it. Of course, I could always apologize and say I want to go back to my group, but dammit that is hard. All of this is hard. I sort of snapped in that email. I have got to stop with these heavy duty drugs and mixing them. I do have an appt with my Dr. on 6/3. How much damage can I do between now and then, rhetorically speaking. I guess I am just putting this out there. Sorry and I know I am a pain in the arse, but this is the best recovery forum around and I do need help right now. Sort of desperate. Thanks.
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Old 05-27-2009, 09:29 PM
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I'm not sure I understand at all, and I certainly have no background in what you're dealing with Katie. But your question reminded me of a line from a song: Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end.

Maybe it's an end and a beginning. I don't know, but I offer support and love. Good luck.
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Old 05-27-2009, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by gneiss View Post
I'm not sure I understand at all, and I certainly have no background in what you're dealing with Katie. But your question reminded me of a line from a song: Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end.

Maybe it's an end and a beginning. I don't know, but I offer support and love. Good luck.
Thanks, gneiss. I truly am a walking pharmacy and even I don't know what I am dealing with. My inclination is to ditch the drugs, but I know what happens when I do that - even worse. Things are still so new in this whole psychopharmacology realm. I feel like a guinea pig at times. I do appreciate your kind thoughts
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Old 05-27-2009, 09:37 PM
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I'm not offering advice but my preference is to take as few drugs as possible (ironic, considering the lovely items I smoked and snorted). Even when they are helpful often the side effects outweigh the benefits. But again, this is only my preference and should in no way be taken as medical gospel.
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Old 05-27-2009, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by gneiss View Post
I'm not offering advice but my preference is to take as few drugs as possible (ironic, considering the lovely items I smoked and snorted). Even when they are helpful often the side effects outweigh the benefits. But again, this is only my preference and should in no way be taken as medical gospel.
Got it. I have a shrink for a reason. He is a licensed Dr. I think he and I need to work together. Nonetheless, so much is unknown at this time. Egads, I shudder to think of what could happen down the road.
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Old 05-27-2009, 09:50 PM
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I'm guessing you won't be the first person to blow off treatment in anger, Katie.
Ring them, email them, go and see them - explain your situation and apologise.

Sure it's hard - I'm not great at humble pie myself - but to blow off your group leaves you with what exactly?

Whether this is an ending or a beginning depends on what you do next really.


oh- and it's always best to consult a dr before beginning, ending, or otherwise changing meds (medical disclaimer LOL)
D
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Old 05-27-2009, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Dee74 View Post
I'm guessing you won't be the first person to blow off treatment in anger, Katie.
Ring them, email them, go and see them - explain your situation and apologise.

Sure it's hard - I'm not great at humble pie myself - but to blow off your group leaves you with what exactly?

Whether this is an ending or a beginning depends on what you do next really.


oh- and it's always best to consult a dr before beginning, ending, or otherwise changing meds (medical disclaimer LOL)
D
No doubt you are right, but I cannot believe I snapped like that. I wasn't very nice at all. Usually I can be more composed. I just felt like I was getting the legalese CYA stuff, if you know what that means. Your spelling apologise (an s rather than a z) is from overseas, right? Be that as it may, I will consult with my Dr but I am not sure about his putting me on that anti-psychotic if for only a few days. But he is the doc and I am the patient. Guess I will eat humble pie tomorrow It would be so much easier if I could have just been together. I can't bail on this treatment unless they kick me out, in which case I guess I'll have no choice. I just think they will now have a consultation with both my therapist and shrink and I'll be cornered, but it IS what I signed up for. Thanks.
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Old 05-27-2009, 10:13 PM
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I just felt like I was getting the legalese CYA stuff, if you know what that means. Your spelling apologise (an s rather than a z) is from overseas, right?
Yeah Australia - and no I don't know what 'the legalese CYA stuff' means

As for snapping - we can all surprise ourselves in a negative way.

Weren't you drinking as well last weekend tho Katie?

I would guess the anti psychs and alcohol might not do good things together - even if you weren't using them at exactly the same time?

or maybe it was the stop - who knows?
Again not a Dr, although I have watched house

D
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Old 05-27-2009, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Dee74 View Post
Yeah Australia - and no I don't know what 'the legalese CYA stuff' means

As for snapping - we can all surprise ourselves in a negative way.

Weren't you drinking as well last weekend tho Katie?

I would guess the anti psychs and alcohol might not do good things together - even if you weren't using them at exactly the same time?

or maybe it was the stop - who knows?
Again not a Dr, although I have watched house

D
Oh, to legally cover one's arse, as it were. I thought you were from somewhere else. You Brits (or Aussies) always are

Yeah, safe to say that both alcohol and anti-psychotics are not a good mix and you are correct. Went off the deep end. All I can do is to pick myself up and dust off and move forward. Anyway, greetings from across a VERY big pond. I am always amazed at the power of the Net to bring people together.
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Old 05-27-2009, 10:34 PM
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Just don't lump us Brits and Aussies together ok? LOL

and yeah I think this can be a beginning of something good (or an ending of something bad)

move fwd, go back to group, see your dr...

and needless to say....drugs and booze


Take care Katie
and gotcha on the cya LOL

D
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Old 05-27-2009, 10:49 PM
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Katie,

You’re right, I’m not a doctor.

Warren Buffett has a saying: Never ask the barber if you need a haircut.

So, the skeptic in me looks at the intensive outpatient recovery program you are in (they get paid), the psychiatrist you are seeing (he gets paid), and the pills you are taking (a product for sale, and you are buying it.)

Your psychiatrist has a conflict of interest. The more problems you have, the longer they continue, the more the money just rolls on in. It’s like an auto mechanic who might be motivated to cause more problems than he fixes so you will keep coming back.

You’re right, I’m not a doctor, but I’ll bet if you asked your doctor if you should be smoking and drinking while using “two anti-psychotics, an anti-depressant, a mood stablizer, and anti anxiety agent” I know what his answer would be.

Humans have lived on this planet for what is presumed to be millions of years, and somehow, as a species, we have managed to survive without alcohol, cigarettes, Prozac, Wellbutrin, Lithium, cocaine, meth, or whatever other chemicals we thoughtlessly ingest in the name of filtering out all of our pesky feelings.

What if our emotions weren’t meant to be filtered? What if they are a survival mechanism? What if they evolved as an inner voice?

Are you angry? Are you sad? Are you anxious? Do you have an attention deficit? Do you obsess about things?

Perhaps the answer is not to get so jacked up on pills that you can’t remember your middle name.

Maybe you need to ask yourself “self, why am I feeling this way?” Maybe the answer is a map, a plan, a path. Maybe our feelings are fuel. Energy. Motivation.

When you are angry, whom are you looking out for?

Have you ever been depressed and decided to give yourself permission to make yourself happy?

Has anxiety ever inspired you to get out of a situation? Did it make your life better or worse?

Have you ever had times where being distracted seemed to make you more aware of extremely complex events going on around you? Should hunters remain vigilant of new distractions?

Have you ever obsessed about a topic or field of interest, hygiene, fitness, or cleanliness of your home, and found that said obsession made your life much better?

I’m not a doctor, but doctors don’t know everything. Mutual admiration isn’t the only thing that sets us apart from the animals.
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Old 05-27-2009, 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Dee74 View Post
Just don't lump us Brits and Aussies together ok? LOL

and yeah I think this can be a beginning of something good (or an ending of something bad)

move fwd, go back to group, see your dr...

and needless to say....drugs and booze


Take care Katie
and gotcha on the cya LOL

D
Sorry! Didn't mean to lump you together! I actually thought about that afterwards and realised my faux paux (did you notice the s in realised?)
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Old 05-27-2009, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Freepath View Post
Katie,

Youíre right, Iím not a doctor.

Warren Buffett has a saying: Never ask the barber if you need a haircut.

So, the skeptic in me looks at the intensive outpatient recovery program you are in (they get paid), the psychiatrist you are seeing (he gets paid), and the pills you are taking (a product for sale, and you are buying it.)

Your psychiatrist has a conflict of interest. The more problems you have, the longer they continue, the more the money just rolls on in. Itís like an auto mechanic who might be motivated to cause more problems than he fixes so you will keep coming back.

Youíre right, Iím not a doctor, but Iíll bet if you asked your doctor if you should be smoking and drinking while using ďtwo anti-psychotics, an anti-depressant, a mood stablizer, and anti anxiety agentĒ I know what his answer would be.

Humans have lived on this planet for what is presumed to be millions of years, and somehow, as a species, we have managed to survive without alcohol, cigarettes, Prozac, Wellbutrin, Lithium, cocaine, meth, or whatever other chemicals we thoughtlessly ingest in the name of filtering out all of our pesky feelings.

What if our emotions werenít meant to be filtered? What if they are a survival mechanism? What if they evolved as an inner voice?

Are you angry? Are you sad? Are you anxious? Do you have an attention deficit? Do you obsess about things?

Perhaps the answer is not to get so jacked up on pills that you canít remember your middle name.

Maybe you need to ask yourself ďself, why am I feeling this way?Ē Maybe the answer is a map, a plan, a path. Maybe our feelings are fuel. Energy. Motivation.

When you are angry, whom are you looking out for?

Have you ever been depressed and decided to give yourself permission to make yourself happy?

Has anxiety ever inspired you to get out of a situation? Did it make your life better or worse?

Have you ever had times where being distracted seemed to make you more aware of extremely complex events going on around you? Should hunters remain vigilant of new distractions?

Have you ever obsessed about a topic or field of interest, hygiene, fitness, or cleanliness of your home, and found that said obsession made your life much better?

Iím not a doctor, but doctors donít know everything. Mutual admiration isnít the only thing that sets us apart from the animals.
Freepath, as always you say such *big* things and I always have to think about them. I'd do you short shrift to respond now and I won't. I will think about what you've said and give you an answer worthy of all the time you put into your post. I just wanted to say thank you and I will be responding.
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Old 05-27-2009, 11:19 PM
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Katie,
I am worried about you. I am not a doctor but if you were my sister, I would take you to the ER to get you stabilized, like now. In my non medical opinion, you could OD and die at any time. Please think about it.
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Old 05-27-2009, 11:30 PM
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I noticed LOL
and I was only joking Katie -'scool.

As for the Dr thing Freepath - I hear what you say - I think we all have had suspicions at some time or other that treatment was more about the therapists bank balance than our welfare.

But I think we'd all agree that to suggest that's always the case is simply not true.

Sometimes we can't fix ourselves - especially when we're not well in ourselves. Sometimes IMO we need that extra outside perspective.

I dunno about anyone else here? but I was woefully bad at self diagnosis, self treatment and self medication.

Sometimes too I think we do need those pesky emotions filtered, or augmented, monitored, or whatever.

Nature is not always perfect in itself - if I had to survive without anti d's at one period in my 20s, I may not be here now.

Others mightn't mind that LOL....but I'm glad I had some help then.

D
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Old 05-28-2009, 04:26 AM
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Originally Posted by TTOSBT View Post
Katie,
I am worried about you. I am not a doctor but if you were my sister, I would take you to the ER to get you stabilized, like now. In my non medical opinion, you could OD and die at any time. Please think about it.
Thanks, TTOSBT. I really mean that. Yeah, I am concerned too. I am going to stay out of trouble here. :ghug I just will. My regular Dr is just down the road and the hospital is only a few miles away. I have a next door neightbor who has been sober for something like 25 years. If worst comes to worse, I'll go knock on his door. They've offered help and if I need it, I will pursue it. I thought I was having a stroke once and they did say to come knock on their door to bring me to the ER so I don't feel quite so alone.
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Old 05-28-2009, 04:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Freepath View Post
Katie,

Youíre right, Iím not a doctor.

Warren Buffett has a saying: Never ask the barber if you need a haircut.
I like that, and not surprised at all you are quoting Warren Buffet.

So, the skeptic in me looks at the intensive outpatient recovery program you are in (they get paid), the psychiatrist you are seeing (he gets paid), and the pills you are taking (a product for sale, and you are buying it.)
Yes, except they have their money in full now (treatment program) so I think at this point they are just interested in CTA (a twist on CYA for Dee ). My Dr. does get paid too, but has told me he does want to practice good medicine (so I don't think he is entirely motivated by greed )

Your psychiatrist has a conflict of interest. The more problems you have, the longer they continue, the more the money just rolls on in. Itís like an auto mechanic who might be motivated to cause more problems than he fixes so you will keep coming back.

Youíre right, Iím not a doctor, but Iíll bet if you asked your doctor if you should be smoking and drinking while using ďtwo anti-psychotics, an anti-depressant, a mood stablizer, and anti anxiety agentĒ I know what his answer would be.
Yes, been together over five years now. I *should* be fixed by now. And you are absolutely correct - no, he would be livid. If I were to tell him about the house being in smoke the other night, he'd dump me in a heartbeat.

Humans have lived on this planet for what is presumed to be millions of years, and somehow, as a species, we have managed to survive without alcohol, cigarettes, Prozac, Wellbutrin, Lithium, cocaine, meth, or whatever other chemicals we thoughtlessly ingest in the name of filtering out all of our pesky feelings.
Wow, so true. Maybe this is due to our "modern age," which ain't all that hot. I think we've evolved to a point where we have our fancy cars and lots of TVs in our houses, but little else. If you look at things in the big picture, we've done miserably (but I won't get started on US politics here or my blood pressure will shoot up. All I can say and to digress just a teeny bit, my blood pressure has gone down since November). Relieved sigh.

What if our emotions werenít meant to be filtered? What if they are a survival mechanism? What if they evolved as an inner voice?
I think you are dead on. My ex used to say "feelings are our friends." He was a brilliant guy and I never quite got it then. So why do we (and speaking for me mostly) feel the need to anesthsetize (sp - it's 3:40 a.m.) them? I don't know. There again, maybe a function of the "modern age" and the fact that we aren't running away from tigers and bears on a regular basis. Maybe we'd be better off doing so.

Are you angry? Are you sad? Are you anxious? Do you have an attention deficit? Do you obsess about things?
Yes, yes, yes and I've thought yes, and yes!

Perhaps the answer is not to get so jacked up on pills that you canít remember your middle name.
Yeah, from Mother's Little Helper to the age of psychotropic drugs in mass quantity. Don't get me wrong. No doubt this has saved lives, but I do wonder just what the long term effects are. So much uncharted territory.

Maybe you need to ask yourself ďself, why am I feeling this way?Ē Maybe the answer is a map, a plan, a path. Maybe our feelings are fuel. Energy. Motivation.
YES! I moved here when I was slipping (and I mean in terms of mental health) and have regretted it ever since. No amount of pills can fix this. I know. Only energy and motivation will fix this.

When you are angry, whom are you looking out for?

Have you ever been depressed and decided to give yourself permission to make yourself happy?

Has anxiety ever inspired you to get out of a situation? Did it make your life better or worse?

Have you ever had times where being distracted seemed to make you more aware of extremely complex events going on around you? Should hunters remain vigilant of new distractions?

Have you ever obsessed about a topic or field of interest, hygiene, fitness, or cleanliness of your home, and found that said obsession made your life much better?

Iím not a doctor, but doctors donít know everything. Mutual admiration isnít the only thing that sets us apart from the animals.
All excellent points. We've forgotten our hunter ways, I am afraid. Well, as always, thanks for such thoughtful comments. I'd really like off the drugs completely (and this includes alcohol and sleeping pills), but at this point I am not sure what that would mean after so many years of being medicated.

Last edited by Katie09; 05-28-2009 at 04:53 AM. Reason: add thoughts
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Old 05-28-2009, 05:16 AM
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Oh, and to Freepath

Can't edit my message anymore but wanted to share this story...

Oh, and just to share a story. There was this guy in there (treatment program) who got busted for smoking pot. He'd been with the Union for 25 or 30 years. Never had any problem but did test positive once. Nice guy, ready to retire, straight shooter. At any rate, the company made him go to this rehab (I am convinced no problem). He did his time and then on what was supposed to have been his last night, the therapist announced he'd been approved for eight more sessions per his insurance. Not cool. The guy got up and walked out and that was it. I do believe that these programs are motivated based on money - in part. My last job was as a case manager for a social service outfit. It came down to billable hours, even if it meant making stupid phone calls to bill for and not helping clients one iota. Yeah, I did care getting in, but got out thinking forget it. So I am somewhat familiar with the system. Anyway, your post made me think of this.
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Old 05-28-2009, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Katie09 View Post
I ask this question in all seriousness. How you do distinguish between the two? Or is it too hard to do? I'm at either point now and I am not sure. OTOH, I have to be a realist.
Ugh. It hurts my brain to read. Katie, slow down. Breathe. You've added 4 or 5 new worries into your life in the last day or so.

You only have one worry, Katie. Recovery. When you get that down, you will have clear cut, well defined answers to all the other worries. It's just the way it works. Forget about the rest of it. Stick a tourniquet on it and set it aside. Recovery. The one and only thing you have to get right.

What is the one thing you can do today for your recovery? Identify it and do it. And that's all you get to do. You don't get to obsess or do anything else. Do that one thing until it's done. Then identify the next thing.
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Old 05-28-2009, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by keithj View Post
Ugh. It hurts my brain to read. Katie, slow down. Breathe. You've added 4 or 5 new worries into your life in the last day or so.

You only have one worry, Katie. Recovery. When you get that down, you will have clear cut, well defined answers to all the other worries. It's just the way it works. Forget about the rest of it. Stick a tourniquet on it and set it aside. Recovery. The one and only thing you have to get right.

What is the one thing you can do today for your recovery? Identify it and do it. And that's all you get to do. You don't get to obsess or do anything else. Do that one thing until it's done. Then identify the next thing.

Sorry! This is just how my brain works, unfortunately. I'll do my best to not think about too much today. *Katie winces.*
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