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Old 05-23-2009, 05:05 PM
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Who really wants to sign up for this?

I've often heard in meetings..."I am a grateful, recovering alcoholic." Well, one might be grateful to be recovering, but I've certainly never been of the bent that I am grateful to have this thing. I've struggled my whole damn life with this deal and, if I had my druthers, it would not be a part of who I am and I don't care what anyone says at any meeting.

At any rate, I am of the opinion that "normies" inflict as much damage as I ever will. In fact, I think sometimes that, due to their status as normies, they inflict even *more* damage.

Whatever, this is sort of a vent - a rant. I've been with someone who has never had one issue in his life - except for the ones that I end up drinking over. Oh sure, he might have a gambling issue. Oh sure, he can't go a day without mentioning how all these other women want him. But he has no diagnosis. I don't want to fight, I don't want to confront, I just want him to be thoughtful, loving, kind and considerate. And when he is not, I drink.
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Old 05-23-2009, 05:34 PM
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I'm very aware of the fact that everything that's happened to me - good or bad - has made me who I am, and that includes alcoholism.

I'm not grateful for it any more than I'm grateful for my cerebral palsy - I think that's pushing the happy happy joy joy sunshine train too far - but both have helped me become me....and I kinda like me these days....so it's not entirely a negative thing.

And I am grateful to be alive.

Originally Posted by Katie09 View Post
I just want him to be thoughtful, loving, kind and considerate. And when he is not, I drink.
That's your choice tho Katie. And it's a bad choice when you look at the results, and think about alternatives.

And as for whether normies or alkies do more damage - it doesn't matter.
The only damage we can do anything about is our own, surely?

D
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Old 05-23-2009, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Dee74 View Post
That's your choice tho Katie. And it's a bad choice when you look at the results, and think about alternatives.

And as for whether normies or alkies do more damage - it doesn't matter.
The only damage we can do anything about is our own, surely?

D
Yes, and I do try to keep my side of the street clean, as it were. I just get tired of people saying that I am looking for an excuse to drink. Truth is, I need no excuse to drink. It's a coping strategy I have employed to deal with things I don't want to deal with. I have a tendency to not say what I am feeling in the minute, let it stew over days and then drink. Not good.

And I bet I am not alone in this. I venture to guess that a lot of people like me don't want to fight, don't do conflict well and drink because of this.
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Old 05-23-2009, 05:49 PM
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om god.... i'm on board with dee on this one.

Katie...it was real important for me when i first started the road to recovery that i understand that i don't really ever drink over a man...or for that matter anything outside myself...i drink over my own reactions to it.

I beilieve that others and circumstances can make sobriety easier or harder...but ultimately i drink over me...somehow thats what it comes back to in a tangled way.

This desease may kill any one of us....so nope grateful for the disease i am not
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Old 05-23-2009, 05:57 PM
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Truth is, I need no excuse to drink. It's a coping strategy I have employed to deal with things I don't want to deal with. I have a tendency to not say what I am feeling in the minute, let it stew over days and then drink. Not good.

And I bet I am not alone in this. I venture to guess that a lot of people like me don't want to fight, don't do conflict well and drink because of this.
You're not alone K - add a little boredom and a lot of self hatred into the mix and you have my drinking career encapsulated there. Like Nands said

ultimately i drink over me...somehow thats what it comes back to in a tangled way.
I actually thought that said 'targeted way' cos that's what it was like for me.

You may have noticed I no longer have much trouble telling people what I think LOL .

Truth is I still hate conflict - it makes my blood run cold - but I realise now sometimes it's a necessary part of life to get things done or not be trampled on...and it's better than drinking

D
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Old 05-23-2009, 06:00 PM
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If he causes you to drink (which he doesn't), why do you stay in a relationship with him? Sorry to be blunt, but, the idea is to avoid triggers.
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Old 05-23-2009, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by suki44883 View Post
If he causes you to drink (which he doesn't), why do you stay in a relationship with him? Sorry to be blunt, but, the idea is to avoid triggers.
Yes, idea is to avoid triggers, but I can't blame this on him, rather my reactions to him. If it's not him, it will be another him. Damn...if he'd do his part, I could do my part much easier and vice versa. And this goes beyond addicted people to any couple with problems. We all have buttons that get pushed. The idea is to know them and to avoid them at all costs.
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Old 05-23-2009, 06:33 PM
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I spent years avoiding things at all costs - communication's far better in my experience - have you bought any of this up with him Katie?

D
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Old 05-23-2009, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Dee74 View Post
I spent years avoiding things at all costs - communication's far better in my experience - have you bought any of this up with him Katie?

D
Yes, yes, and he just hangs up on me. Problem is I've had a few by the time I even have the guts to bring these things up. By then, he's pissed at me for having had a few. It just doesn't help that we can't talk through these things. I'd be willing to - sober or otherwise - but he just can't.
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Old 05-23-2009, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Katie09 View Post
I've often heard in meetings..."I am a grateful, recovering alcoholic." Well, one might be grateful to be recovering, but I've certainly never been of the bent that I am grateful to have this thing. I've struggled my whole damn life with this deal and, if I had my druthers, it would not be a part of who I am and I don't care what anyone says at any meeting.

At any rate, I am of the opinion that "normies" inflict as much damage as I ever will. In fact, I think sometimes that, due to their status as normies, they inflict even *more* damage.

Whatever, this is sort of a vent - a rant. I've been with someone who has never had one issue in his life - except for the ones that I end up drinking over. Oh sure, he might have a gambling issue. Oh sure, he can't go a day without mentioning how all these other women want him. But he has no diagnosis. I don't want to fight, I don't want to confront, I just want him to be thoughtful, loving, kind and considerate. And when he is not, I drink.
What about being in a relationship with an active addict is attractive or seems like a good idea for an alcoholic trying to recover??
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Old 05-23-2009, 07:14 PM
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Actually, he sounds kinda like a jerk to me. Who wants someone who goes around saying how so many other women want him? I'd step up to him and say...Well, there's the door. Go on with your bad self!

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Old 05-23-2009, 10:14 PM
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and...... I kinda like you too, Dee :-)

When I heard people in meetings repeat over and over and over (I prayed that God would shot me now) that they were grateful alcoholics, I believe they meant that it was because they now had a "program for living" In fact when i asked someone what the Sam Hill he meant by that, he explained "If I hadn't become an alcoholic, I wouldn't have this program for living" Hmmmm.

I had even heard people saying they felt sorry for normies, because *they* didn't have a program for living. Hmmmm.....
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Old 05-23-2009, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by suki44883 View Post
Actually, he sounds kinda like a jerk to me. Who wants someone who goes around saying how so many other women want him? I'd step up to him and say...Well, there's the door. Go on with your bad self!
Yeah, I hear ya. Part of me feels sorry for him when he does this. I try to analyze...are you just really insecure or do you actually believe this? Either way, I try to let it go although it bugs the crap outta me.
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Old 05-23-2009, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by TTOSBT View Post
What about being in a relationship with an active addict is attractive or seems like a good idea for an alcoholic trying to recover??
Good question. He at times can be very supportive, but when he's not, he is definitely not. I left him a message this a.m. to try to patch things up. Not surprisingly enough, he is going to punish me a while or maybe forever for my transgressions. IOW, he did not return the call and who knows if he ever will. You'd think him with his smoking addiction might understand, but no. It's all about MY addictions.
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Old 05-23-2009, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Katie09 View Post
I've often heard in meetings..."I am a grateful, recovering alcoholic." Well, one might be grateful to be recovering, but I've certainly never been of the bent that I am grateful to have this thing. I've struggled my whole damn life with this deal and, if I had my druthers, it would not be a part of who I am and I don't care what anyone says at any meeting.
I happy to know there is a way out of my suffering...and my suffering is of my own making...it is a relief to realize that. But all the things that caused me to suffer severed only one purpose, A jumping off point.

Originally Posted by Katie09 View Post
At any rate, I am of the opinion that "normies" inflict as much damage as I ever will. In fact, I think sometimes that, due to their status as normies, they inflict even *more* damage.
Some normie's seem to me to be righteous...or it has been my experience with my family. Their sh!t doesn't stink and they seem to stepped in it IMO. Yet they are free to live their life as they wish because there is no adverse scrutiny like alcoholism that beings them under the lite of 'heighten righteous notice'.

Originally Posted by Katie09 View Post
Whatever, this is sort of a vent - a rant. I've been with someone who has never had one issue in his life - except for the ones that I end up drinking over. Oh sure, he might have a gambling issue. Oh sure, he can't go a day without mentioning how all these other women want him. But he has no diagnosis. I don't want to fight, I don't want to confront, I just want him to be thoughtful, loving, kind and considerate. And when he is not, I drink.
In any toxic environment I seek my personal toxin to rectify those emotions that cause me harm. I must remove one or the other.
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Old 05-23-2009, 11:02 PM
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Katie,

Is he more supportive of you when you are not drinking and trying and seemingly not supportive when you do drink?

Maybe this is becoming too much work for him. We're not supposed to have to change for another person. It sounds like he has his issues and you have yours and both of you are trying to change each other (tho quitting drinking for good would be of benefit to you regardless.) If he doesn't treat you the way you expect, you say you drink. Do you think you are trying to punish him indirectly, or directly? Ever hear the line. I will drink this poison in hopes to kill you?
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Old 05-24-2009, 12:25 AM
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Originally Posted by gerryP View Post
Katie,

Is he more supportive of you when you are not drinking and trying and seemingly not supportive when you do drink?

Maybe this is becoming too much work for him. We're not supposed to have to change for another person. It sounds like he has his issues and you have yours and both of you are trying to change each other (tho quitting drinking for good would be of benefit to you regardless.) If he doesn't treat you the way you expect, you say you drink. Do you think you are trying to punish him indirectly, or directly? Ever hear the line. I will drink this poison in hopes to kill you?
Excellent questions. He hates my drinking and has no patience for it. He is supportive of my sobriety.

It may well be becoming too much work for him, but he's a lot of work for me too, although he just cannot see it. No, I am not trying to punish him, as I don't subject him to it in person except when dragged to a casino for three hours. He has his own issues. I drink because I hate confronting issues that I need to but will result in people getting volatile, so I avoid them. I avoid them through drinking. These are the things I am learning in IOP. No, I won't be getting any awards there and I'm ok with that. The important thing is to gain knowledge and insight I can apply. I am supposed to be addressing things as they arise, but I am loathe to do that as I don't want a blowout. Much easier to pick up a drink. My two choices with him are to say how I feel and deal with the consequences (never good) and not and not fix me. The other choice is to take a stand he won't like which will result in huge discomfort and not take a drink. Either way, I am damned and either way it ends things.
Since I don't have an unlimited supply of funds, I am afraid he gets the boot unless he changes too. I need to focus on me and now is the time to do it. Thanks for your thoughts.
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Old 05-24-2009, 12:26 AM
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I wouldn't have signed up to be an alkie or druggie beforehand, but at this point I would not trade those experiences. It sucks, it's hard work, it's no fun. But, know thyself, right? I've learned more about myself than I think would have been possible otherwise. I've learned more about what I expect from myself; more about setting limits; more about what I expect from others, especially men I am involved with... the list goes on.

I barely passed classes my last semester of undergrad, and mostly don't remember anything. I stumbled into grad school at my last-choice school on academic probation because I was more interested in getting high than going to class. Drugs were so close to taking everything I think is important. And now I have a feeling of accomplishment. I took my life back. I pulled my head out of my @$$, knuckled down, and quit using. I pulled off a 4.0 GPA for my first semester of grad school. I got rid of the people who were bringing me down. I straightened up most of the problems I caused. And now I feel like there's not much to stop me. I feel like I've been just about as low as I can go in my life and I survived it.

As for your boyfriend... my ex also says all the time that women all want him. When anyone else is around it's always: "She wants to **** me." Gawd I got sick of it. But I think, in his case, he did it out of his own insecurity. He knew it made me jealous or possessive and I think he kind of liked that. It reassured him that I was still interested. When no one else was around he would make comments that he wasn't that good-looking, women didn't find him attractive, etc. It wasn't until I read the comments above that I put 2 and 2 together and realized that underneath his brash and confident exterior is someone who has let slip a little bit that he is not as confident as he seems; makes me wonder if it was a bit of an act because he thought I might like that or if I saw something in him that he does not normally let people see. I have met/talked to several of his exes and they definitely never saw the insecurity. As far as I can tell he never said anything like that to them, it was always about how many women wanted him rather than how many women didn't want him. Wow. Puts his drunk-dialed "I'm sorry I hurt you, I love you, and want you in my life because I can't be the person I want to be without you" from a week ago in a whole new light. I figured he was just hammered and babbling. Oh dear.

I saw Ghosts of Girlfriends Past this afternoon and bawled in the theater. It's supposed to be an air-headed chick flick and much like Confessions of a Shopaholic it hit home in a lot of painful ways.

Thanks to everyone for the posts. What a weird night for me.
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Old 05-24-2009, 12:29 AM
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What I really wanted to drive home in this thread is that no one signs up for this. No one says "When I grow up I want to mess up my life with alcohol and drugs. Then I want to lose things important to me. And for good measure, I would like a psychiatric Dx thrown in for fun."

But often we are judged as if that were the case. That is a huge problem. Even in this relationship I think he thinks it should be a snap. Well, if he got help for his smoking, it would be akin to my constantly questioning if he was smoking and telling him that smoking is more important than a human being. Not true. Addictions are tough and not a reflection on the other person, although the other person may present with triggers that lead someone down the path of relapse.
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Old 05-24-2009, 12:46 AM
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Originally Posted by gneiss View Post
I wouldn't have signed up to be an alkie or druggie beforehand, but at this point I would not trade those experiences. It sucks, it's hard work, it's no fun. But, know thyself, right? I've learned more about myself than I think would have been possible otherwise. I've learned more about what I expect from myself; more about setting limits; more about what I expect from others, especially men I am involved with... the list goes on.
Well, this is certainly a positive way to look at things and kudos to you for achieving this.

I barely passed classes my last semester in undergrad school and mostly don't remember anything. I stumbled into grad school at my last-choice school on academic probation because I was more interested in getting high than going to class. Drugs were so close to taking everything I think is important. And now I have a feeling of accomplishment. I took my life back. I pulled my head out of my @$$, knuckled down, and quit using. I pulled off a 4.0 GPA for my first semester of grad school. I got rid of the people who were bringing me down. I straightened up most of the problems I caused. And now I feel like there's not much to stop me. I feel like I've been just about as low as I can go in my life and I survived it.
Major congrats on that 4.0 GPA. When I quit drinking before, I started college. I barely graduated high school. Actually, was in rehab my last semester and I think they felt sorry for me so they pushed me through. I achieved excellent grades at college and went on to earn an MBA and another certificate in HR management (did get a 4.0 GPA on that deal). I was drinking through grad school and the certificate thingy too. I think to myself - I sure could have gone a lot further in life had I gotten my act together. Oh well, life isn't over yet

As for your boyfriend... my ex also says all the time that women all want him. When anyone else is around it's always: "She wants to **** me." Gawd I got sick of it. But I think, in his case, he did it out of his own insecurity. He knew it made me jealous or possessive and I think he kind of liked that. It reassured him that I was still interested. When no one else was around he would make comments that he wasn't that good-looking, women didn't find him attractive, etc. It wasn't until I read the comments above that I put 2 and 2 together and realized that underneath his brash and confident exterior is someone who has let slip a little bit that he is not as confident as he seems; makes me wonder if it was a bit of an act because he thought I might like that or if I saw something in him that he does not normally let people see. I have met/talked to several of his exes and they definitely never saw the insecurity. As far as I can tell he never said anything like that to them, it was always about how many women wanted him rather than how many women didn't want him. Wow. Puts his drunk-dialed "I'm sorry I hurt you, I love you, and want you in my life because I can't be the person I want to be without you" from a week ago in a whole new light. I figured he was just hammered and babbling. Oh dear.
Very interesting insights and thanks.

I saw Ghosts of Girlfriends Past this afternoon and bawled in the theater. It's supposed to be an air-headed chick flick and much like Confessions of a Shopaholic it hit home in a lot of painful ways.
Hmm, sounds like it's worth seeing.

Thanks to everyone for the posts. What a weird night for me.
Yup, thanks all.
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