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Should Jails detox inmates?

Old 05-13-2009, 09:51 PM
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I have mixed emotions about it. On one hand there's the hard detox in jail without the comfort and privacy of being home or in a detox setting. The thought of having the full blown withdrawl symptoms with no private bathroom, no hot tea, no blankets and heating pads etc etc just sound horrible if not inhumane.

But if that type of detox kept a person from ever using again or helped them to stop using then maybe it's worth it to save their life down the road.

I have never been in jail but don't they have a sick bay? I mean how does it work for people that are on psych meds and need them daily? Do they get them or are they cold turkey on those meds while in jail? That would seem very very dangerous but I have no clue.

I do think that people can be very miserable in jail detoxing but I don't think that many die from it in jail. Amazing really
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Old 01-14-2010, 02:12 PM
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I do think that people can be very miserable in jail detoxing but I don't think that many die from it in jail. Amazing really[/QUOTE]


even one death because of this is not acceptable every one of these pepale have family that suffers enough because of there family members addiction
we as the pepale need to sand up an fight
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Old 01-14-2010, 02:59 PM
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Welcome to SoberRecovery.com jeeper7595.

Have a look around this site and you will find great supportive people in all stages of recovery. Glad to have you here with us.
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Old 01-15-2010, 03:36 PM
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One of my clients nearly died from detoxing cold turkey from Klonopin while in jail on a bench warrant.

Had multiple seizures and almost choked to death on his vomit. Jail staff didn't believe that he was on benzos and wouldn't give him any.
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Old 01-23-2010, 08:33 AM
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I don't know how imprisonment for drug addicts is "good" for them or for society. It's dehumanizing, and while in jail they can't work or take care of their kids and so they end up worse off then before. The system "traps" them by paroling them and giving them drug tests, and since they're addicted they end up back in jail. Only murderers/rapists/predators need to be in jail. Even the rationale behind putting petty dealers behind bars is suspect-as it does not deter people from using or buying-it discriminates against poor minorities while the rich drug lords remain untouchable.
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Old 01-28-2010, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by keithj
Originally Posted by Eroica
So, the way I look at it, the state is killing hundreds if not thousands of people by not sending them to a facility to safely detox before incarcerating them.. If they're gonna be put in jail then its the states responsbility to help them detox.
That's a fairly absurd notion and not very accurate. I'd bet we'd hear about it if the state was killing hundreds or thousands of people. A single death while incarcerated is a big deal. Big news and big investigation. I'm guessing it's very rare.
In Los Angeles County, CA there were 237 deaths in the years 2000-2006 (the article). So that averages out to be 39 deaths a year. Now now I'm a regular LA news watcher and I haven't seen any news remotely considered "big" involving jail deaths. In fact I cant recall when I seen even a footnote type of news story of a jail death. Anywho just pointing that out .
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Old 02-09-2010, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Eroica View Post
I don't know how imprisonment for drug addicts is "good" for them or for society
It's not.I have personally seen prison staff furnish drugs to inmates.I spent over 5 years in prison,and can tell you first hand that how the prison system operates is not what it appears.Drugs are furnished to inmates BY staff.Most of the drugs in prison come off the street,by the very people who are trusted by society...the so called good guys.If you want it,there is a prison official that has it.

The prison system is a huge business,nothing more.It's about keeping the prison "Machine" running, nothing more.It's very simple,if people got better,and didn't re offend,then the bottom line suffers...and guess what we tax payers fund it all! As far as detox goes,you either die,or you don't "That is detox in prison"

I watched a man die personally.When the body was removed,I happened to hear the following conversation,as this poor man was zipped up in a yellow body bag,and thrown on a gurney like a sack of potatoes....Captain: "Well,that's one way to parole" Correctional Officer:"Looks like we won't be making any more money off of this sack of s--t." Captain laughing:"Oh well,we always have an endless supply!"This is something I didn't hear about or read about....I lived it.It sure made me want to get sober!
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Old 02-09-2010, 06:06 PM
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OMG SoberSwede! That's horrible about the conversation you overheard! I'm left speechless. I can't believe some people can be so clinical about death, not even clinical, but to joke about it! Jeez.. (shakes head)

Yes, I was asking that somewhat rhetorically as I'm against imprisonment myself, but I'm still stunned to hear that prisoners can get drugs so easily.

Wow, this isn't helping my opinion of law enforcement and the so-called "justice" system at all. It's all a sham.
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Old 02-09-2010, 06:20 PM
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My now 37 year old stepson commited robberies while on crack and wanting more.
He served his time and was released on parole.
A few months later he was jeopordizing his life seriously again with his crack relapse.
He is now serving the remainder of his original sentence..6 years.
Right or wrong, I am grateful. I am pretty sure he would be dead by now otherwise.
I don't think this was the ideal way to do it.
I do believe that inmates should be detoxed and that people's lives are at risk.
I know that drugs are available in prison, that medical needs, even emergencies are disregarded.
I hear that my stepson has contracted serious disease and is not treated.
I also hear that he is in a much better place in his head and his father believes that his life has been saved and that he will stay clean because he has lost so much of his life now.
I don't think our system is logical or help oriented. I know so, actually.
Why doesn't the US look to other countries and for more workable ways of dealing with addiction?
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Old 02-09-2010, 09:30 PM
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Sadly, after hearing some stories from the Inside, Swede's story doesn't surprise me one bit. I've heard so many stories of what amounts to torture it makes me sick. I don't know that imprisoning people is helpful necessarily but I do believe there are people who shouldn't be out walking around.

"For if you suffer your people to be ill-educated, and their manners to be corrupted from their infancy, and then punish them for those crimes to which their first education disposed them, what else is to be concluded from this, but that you first make thieves and then punish them."

-Sir Thomas More in Utopia

I'm no hippie-commune utopian kind of girl, but that's a true quote, and it's what the prison system does. I've heard varying numbers but somewhere around 75% of prisoners go back within 5 years. And it's no surprise if we don't offer them skills to stay out of prison. It seems ridiculous to incarcerate people, make it difficult or impossible for them to gain any skills or education in prison, and let them hang out with people who are basically thugs. What will they learn? They'll learn to be better thugs.

It takes strength and determination for a person to overcome their surroundings; most people can't do it. I can't, I've proven it. The only way I could stop drugs is not be around drugs and people who do them. If you walked into my living room right now and put a sack of meth on the table, I 100% guarantee I would do it. I had to change my surroundings.

There's no easy answer there. I think every square inch of a prison should be under video and audio surveillance, monitored by an independent, off-site auditor that has no direct communication with the prison, or is perhaps even anonymous (he'd turn the video over to the DA and the DA would take it from there). Guards should be held personally, legally responsible for their conduct. How many would behave more appropriately if they knew they might end up in general population with the people they used to abuse?

We made the choice as a society that no cruel or unusual punishment should be employed. We also decided that allowing someone to die of a treatable medical condition or suffer through a terminal one without medical intervention constitutes cruel or unusual punishment. Therefore we have to provide medical treatment.

The other thing is that most detox situations would happen before a trial, which means he's still presumed innocent. This person would have been picked up off the street doing whatever it was that got him arrested and that's when he'd need to say he's an addict and needs to detox. Most police departments even ask about such issues during the booking process. There's a long list of questions about health problems, required medications, whether you are under the influence of drugs or alcohol, etc. Unfortunately most aren't going to say anything because cops tend to look down on that sort of thing. It seems likely that the first time anyone knows this person needed to detox is when they find him convulsing, or dead, in his cell. Perhaps just being under the influence itself shouldn't be illegal, or if it's admitted during booking it can't be prosecuted. That might give someone their opportunity to get help without getting another year on their sentence.

(sorry for the length. Believe it or not this was the edited version!)
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Old 02-10-2010, 10:03 AM
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I personally think prison is cruel and unusual punishment, making it unconstitutional. Separating people from society is not the same thing as imprisoning them. People want to see prisoners, especially drug addicts, suffer... thats why they put them in cages.

Sorry, I think people with drug problems should be helped, not treated like animals. These are real human beings, if anyone forgot. Sure, we can discuss whats good for them, but that shouldnt be the job of law enforcement, but between a patient and his doctor.
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Old 02-10-2010, 12:02 PM
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I'm wondering what you have in mind by keeping people separate from society without putting them in prison. If you separate a person from the rest of society and prohibit him from interacting with society, that's imprisonment. You can put them on an island somewhere or make them stay at home or put them in a little camp. You can paint the walls pretty colors and sing Kum-by-ah and make everyone feel warm and fuzzy. But it's still prison because they are separated from society and can't go back. So what is the distinction you are using?
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Old 02-10-2010, 12:17 PM
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I also would like to know how you propose for this fantasy would without police, military, prisions, etc. will work. I agree it all sounds wonderful in theory, but back here on planet earth, I'm just not seeing how it could work. Or are you just arguing for a hypothetical world where everyone would live with peace and love, sunshine and rainbows?? Not trying to be sarcastic...well maybe a little ;-) I'd really like to hear your thoughts on how any of this could be possible within human nature. Take care.
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Old 02-10-2010, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by tyler View Post
I also would like to know how you propose for this fantasy would without police, military, prisions, etc. will work. I agree it all sounds wonderful in theory, but back here on planet earth, I'm just not seeing how it could work. Or are you just arguing for a hypothetical world where everyone would live with peace and love, sunshine and rainbows?? Not trying to be sarcastic...well maybe a little ;-) I'd really like to hear your thoughts on how any of this could be possible within human nature. Take care.
you forgot unicorns and care bears
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Old 02-10-2010, 04:15 PM
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Someone said we should be using other countries as models. Do you think Sweden and other European countries keeps people in cages? Do you think other countries think our prison system is fair and humane? I thought we were more creative than that that we can explore possibilites that don't include keeping people in cells.

Do you really think the majority of people in prison even need to be seaparated from society? Most are non-violent and dont need to be separated at all. Just a very few do. We dont need prisons for that.

Yes, sorry fopr being so positive. Know that upsets some people who wish to see others locked up. I want to see prisoners live as humanely as possible, even if they must be separated from society.

Some people need to be separated from society, but that doesnt mean they need to be put in uniforms, herded around like animals, treated like crap, and everything that along with imprisonment. The only people who think this is impossible are those who really don't want to reform prisons. I suppose capital punishment is also inevitable? Give me a break.
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Old 02-10-2010, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by tyler View Post
I also would like to know how you propose for this fantasy would without police, military, prisions, etc. will work. I agree it all sounds wonderful in theory, but back here on planet earth, I'm just not seeing how it could work. Or are you just arguing for a hypothetical world where everyone would live with peace and love, sunshine and rainbows?? Not trying to be sarcastic...well maybe a little ;-) I'd really like to hear your thoughts on how any of this could be possible within human nature. Take care.
Why all the negativity? Hope thats helping you in recovery.

In a short answer, I think government is unnecessary... actually when it is there, it makes people worse. If police were "helping" people then locking up people for doing drugs would be a deterrent, but its not. So the whole drug war really isn't doing anything. Thats just comon sense, not rainbows and sunshine.
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Old 02-10-2010, 04:36 PM
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You know I've heard that argument so many times.. that isnt possible, thats crazy. At one point people thought it was crazy that blacks should get equal rights. It was crazy at one time to suggest that slaves should be emancipated. It was crazy to think that we would be on the verge of allowing same-sex couples to marry.

People would tell activists "that's crazy" to discourage real debate, to stifle opinion, and to try to put down those they don't agree with. So sad we still have to deal with that today.
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Old 02-10-2010, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Eroica View Post
Someone said we should be using other countries as models. Do you think Sweden and other European countries keeps people in cages? Do you think other countries think our prison system is fair and humane? I thought we were more creative than that that we can explore possibilites that don't include keeping people in cells.

Do you really think the majority of people in prison even need to be seaparated from society? Most are non-violent and dont need to be separated at all. Just a very few do. We dont need prisons for that.

Yes, sorry fopr being so positive. Know that upsets some people who wish to see others locked up. I want to see prisoners live as humanely as possible, even if they must be separated from society.

Some people need to be separated from society, but that doesnt mean they need to be put in uniforms, herded around like animals, treated like crap, and everything that along with imprisonment. The only people who think this is impossible are those who really don't want to reform prisons. I suppose capital punishment is also inevitable? Give me a break.
I pretty much agree with everything you've said here about the prison system. It is definately broken and there is much room for improvment. However comparing Sweden to the good 'ol USA is apples to oranges.

Americans are, by nature it seems, a violent people. The country has been based on violence from the very foundation. Because of this we have a much higher rate of violent crime and crime in general.

Swedish prisons are indeed much "nicer" than most American prisons, but the population of Sweden about 9 million vs the over 300 million in the US. I do feel that we lock up far to many drug addicts, but when a drug addict commits a crime, especially a violent one, they need to be removed from society for a period of time. Idealy we would have treatment available in prison for the many addicts that end up locked up. But as we all know here, nobody can FORCE an addict to stop using. So how do you propose we deal with addicts who are repeat offenders, even if we didn't lock them up for the "crime" of possession?

I would like to hear you ideas on this because as I said before, the system is definately broken. However, to often our proposed solution is, "Look how Europe does it." While we can learn from our European brothers and sisters, what works there will not necessarily work here. Take care.
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Old 02-10-2010, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Eroica View Post
You know I've heard that argument so many times.. that isnt possible, thats crazy. At one point people thought it was crazy that blacks should get equal rights. It was crazy at one time to suggest that slaves should be emancipated. It was crazy to think that we would be on the verge of allowing same-sex couples to marry.

People would tell activists "that's crazy" to discourage real debate, to stifle opinion, and to try to put down those they don't agree with. So sad we still have to deal with that today.
No problem with debate, seems that is what is going on here. I'm just asking how you propose to get to the eutopien society you desire. Seriously. Just curious.

BTW, my recovery is just fine. :wtf2
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Old 02-10-2010, 06:04 PM
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I, too, am curious what alternatives could be applied?

I think there is something sick about violence and horror being considered entertainment and we know tv effects children.
But I also believe in freedom of speech and would not want big brother running our media (even tho' they are far more than they should already).

Gun control? The Swedish males are required by law to have a gun at 18 years old to contribute to national protection in time of need.

Health care for citizens? woops Hilary Clinton took control of my fingers! LMAO j/k

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