Torn
Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Limerick, Ireland
Posts: 6
Originally Posted by LosingmyMisery 
I don't think anyone has been judge mental here, Katie, or on a high horse.
DK, I'm more a lurker here than a poster and I haven't been around in several weeks, so wasn't aware of your recent, eh, excursion. And I don't know you, obviously. But your posts have always given me the impression that you are an intelligent and, more importantly, a sincere person. I hope your honesty will kick that monkey's ass back where it belongs.
Today's Muse
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West end
Posts: 1,081
I think you shoot from the hip for lack of something better to say. You are missing the point. I try to share from experience, Katie, my experience. I lived it and I have struggled through recovery. Don't count me out because you don't like what I have to say. I've been there done that. You see things from one perspective only. I've been full circle and have found sobriety. It may worth your while to try to gain from what others have to offer instead of picking it apart. I've found resolve and you are still searching. I hope you find what it is you are looking for...
Personally, I don't really care what your opinion of my posts are. I tried to reach you, but it is clear you don't want help, you want something I can't give. If I can't reach you, I will try to reach another. You may not appreciate my post, but hopefully, they are helpful to someone who is ready.
Personally, I don't really care what your opinion of my posts are. I tried to reach you, but it is clear you don't want help, you want something I can't give. If I can't reach you, I will try to reach another. You may not appreciate my post, but hopefully, they are helpful to someone who is ready.
mergirl
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Paradise
Posts: 4,161
Your right stone, you are. . .bummer it went from dk's thread to an aa bashing thread (again)
Katie, have you ever considered just letting it go? I love this reading.
You are reading from the book The Language of Letting Go
New Beginnings
Resentments are the blocks that hold us back from loving others and ourselves. Resentments do not punish the other person; they punish us. They become barriers to feeling good and enjoying life. They prevent us from being in harmony with the world. Resentments are hardened chunks of anger. They loosen up and dissolve with forgiveness and letting go.
Letting go of resentments does not mean we allow the other person to do anything to us that he or she wants. It means we accept what happened in the past, and we set boundaries for the future. We can let go of resentments and still have boundaries.
We try to see the good in the person or the good that ultimately evolved from whatever incident we feel resentful about. We try to see our part.
Then we put the incident to rest.
and the smiley that goes with it
:horse
ok, last I will post on to anyone here except the knob! Best wishes for you knob, I like you quite a lot and hope you find your groove.
Katie, have you ever considered just letting it go? I love this reading.
You are reading from the book The Language of Letting Go
New Beginnings
Resentments are the blocks that hold us back from loving others and ourselves. Resentments do not punish the other person; they punish us. They become barriers to feeling good and enjoying life. They prevent us from being in harmony with the world. Resentments are hardened chunks of anger. They loosen up and dissolve with forgiveness and letting go.
Letting go of resentments does not mean we allow the other person to do anything to us that he or she wants. It means we accept what happened in the past, and we set boundaries for the future. We can let go of resentments and still have boundaries.
We try to see the good in the person or the good that ultimately evolved from whatever incident we feel resentful about. We try to see our part.
Then we put the incident to rest.
and the smiley that goes with it
:horse
ok, last I will post on to anyone here except the knob! Best wishes for you knob, I like you quite a lot and hope you find your groove.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,141
Originally Posted by stone
If two people are just posting to each other (in another persons thread) it would be make more sense to do it by PM. 
I am after a mod job.
I am after a mod job.
Wow, hands down, one of the most intelligent posts I've ever read on SR - your motivation or not!
Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pugetopolis
Posts: 2,384
Katie
I said I would bow out, but when lives are on the line I will not be silent.
From reading of your past experience with alcoholism, you of all people should understand that this is not a game played from behind a keyboard. A real live human being is involved.
I really don't care if you hate or love AA, because this is bigger than that. It is bigger than what I think of you and bigger than what you think of me. Someone said in a past post on another thread that your resentment towards AA colors everything you say here. The question to ask yourself is your attitude and your postings reflecting your hate of AA helpful to Paul?
I don't think you care about Paul. You are the typical self-centered alcoholic that cares more about your own resentments than whether a fellow human being gets sober or lives or dies.
I said I would bow out, but when lives are on the line I will not be silent.
From reading of your past experience with alcoholism, you of all people should understand that this is not a game played from behind a keyboard. A real live human being is involved.
I really don't care if you hate or love AA, because this is bigger than that. It is bigger than what I think of you and bigger than what you think of me. Someone said in a past post on another thread that your resentment towards AA colors everything you say here. The question to ask yourself is your attitude and your postings reflecting your hate of AA helpful to Paul?
I don't think you care about Paul. You are the typical self-centered alcoholic that cares more about your own resentments than whether a fellow human being gets sober or lives or dies.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,141
Originally Posted by jimhere
Katie
I said I would bow out, but when lives are on the line I will not be silent.
From reading of your past experience with alcoholism, you of all people should understand that this is not a game played from behind a keyboard. A real live human being is involved.
I really don't care if you hate or love AA, because this is bigger than that. It is bigger than what I think of you and bigger than what you think of me. Someone said in a past post on another thread that your resentment towards AA colors everything you say here. The question to ask yourself is your attitude and your postings reflecting your hate of AA helpful to Paul?
I don't think you care about Paul. You are the typical self-centered alcoholic that cares more about your own resentments than whether a fellow human being gets sober or lives or dies.
I said I would bow out, but when lives are on the line I will not be silent.
From reading of your past experience with alcoholism, you of all people should understand that this is not a game played from behind a keyboard. A real live human being is involved.
I really don't care if you hate or love AA, because this is bigger than that. It is bigger than what I think of you and bigger than what you think of me. Someone said in a past post on another thread that your resentment towards AA colors everything you say here. The question to ask yourself is your attitude and your postings reflecting your hate of AA helpful to Paul?
I don't think you care about Paul. You are the typical self-centered alcoholic that cares more about your own resentments than whether a fellow human being gets sober or lives or dies.
Paul, you are welcome on my doorstep anytime, but please phone in advance (not that you even HAVE my phone number, but if you were ever if trouble and asked I would give it to you).
Jimhere, you are never welcome on my doorstep.
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 600
Before this thread does get closed as it seems to be going that way, i would like to add one thing to it.
Paul, i have got alot from your posts on the brief time i have been here, so i would like to throw my two pence in.
Someone said to me in AA when i was tring to control my drinking, that it may be you need to give it a go. None of us can tell you controlled drinking doesn't work for an alcoholic, it's something we end up proving to ourselves.
If you do carry on drinking and you feel your drinking is getting worse just remember that, and if you do end up proving to yourself that controlled drinking doesn't work then think about quitting.
You may feel now that you're having fun drinking. If i could seperate the nights out with friends of having fun to the other quiet nights in alone with a bottle of wine and some beer then i would. Ultimately for me it was this kind of thinking that you're doing now that made me realise i can't do the nights out with friends without also doing the nights in on my own with drink.
I always cast my mind back to my birthday weekend last year, all i wanted was fun with friends for my birthday. I didn't drink every day after that, but two weeks later my 13 year old son went to the local town with his friends. I had been watching the football with a friend having fun with a bottle of wine and a couple of beers. My son phoned me as he had spent his bus fare home. The normal thing for to do was pick him up. It was only when i was driving home that i realised what i was doing. The harsh reality is that i had spent years driving my children over the drink drive limit and within two weeks of funtime drinking i was doing it again, it was time to stop.
All i can add to this thread is to look for the point in the future when you realise it's time to stop, because an incident maybe not exactly the same as mine, but something will happen and it will stare you in the face.
Paul
Paul, i have got alot from your posts on the brief time i have been here, so i would like to throw my two pence in.
Someone said to me in AA when i was tring to control my drinking, that it may be you need to give it a go. None of us can tell you controlled drinking doesn't work for an alcoholic, it's something we end up proving to ourselves.
If you do carry on drinking and you feel your drinking is getting worse just remember that, and if you do end up proving to yourself that controlled drinking doesn't work then think about quitting.
You may feel now that you're having fun drinking. If i could seperate the nights out with friends of having fun to the other quiet nights in alone with a bottle of wine and some beer then i would. Ultimately for me it was this kind of thinking that you're doing now that made me realise i can't do the nights out with friends without also doing the nights in on my own with drink.
I always cast my mind back to my birthday weekend last year, all i wanted was fun with friends for my birthday. I didn't drink every day after that, but two weeks later my 13 year old son went to the local town with his friends. I had been watching the football with a friend having fun with a bottle of wine and a couple of beers. My son phoned me as he had spent his bus fare home. The normal thing for to do was pick him up. It was only when i was driving home that i realised what i was doing. The harsh reality is that i had spent years driving my children over the drink drive limit and within two weeks of funtime drinking i was doing it again, it was time to stop.
All i can add to this thread is to look for the point in the future when you realise it's time to stop, because an incident maybe not exactly the same as mine, but something will happen and it will stare you in the face.
Paul
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 679
I have been sitting here thinking about the "torn" state and what got me out of it. I really didn't admit to myself that I was an alcoholic until probably a month or so into sobriety. It was only with the clarity of sobriety that I was able to actually see the vast effects that alcohol had had on my life. I was uncomfortably wavering between the two options of sobriety and attempted moderation until I made up my mind definitively to get sober only probably about one month before I actually took the plunge. While I was torn, I was putting a lot of energy into controlling my drinking, into trying to make my life better, into trying to be happy. It wasn't working out. It was wearing me down. I am trying to figure out though what changed to change me and my attitude that steered me towards sobriety because I cannot quite pinpoint it. There was not a particularly bad night out. I felt empty. I felt defeated. And finally I gave up.
The one thing I do remember is this. And I think this might have been a pivotal moment. My therapist finally challenged me. My therapist who had sat through all my stories of alcohol, all my rationalizations, all my rules, everything, and listened to my basic desperation, my unhappiness for years finally was like "You have to stop." And I started to cry and said, "But that is all that I have." I think in that moment I was actually faced with really, truly giving up alcohol, and saw myself breaking down, part of me saw how much it was a part of my life, "all that I had," and that to give it up would feel like giving up my husband or my best friend or something of the like. Part of me realized that there was something warped in believing that alcohol was all that I had. And all the games and strategies that I had been playing over the last few years had been a desperate attempt to keep something in my life that I knew shouldn't be. My therapist said to me, "I guarantee you it is not all that you have." I did not believe her then. And I went into sobriety on a sort of faith, by which I mean I had no idea what was going to happen, what was going to take the place of something that had been so forefront in my life. I felt blind and alone and skeptical. It was scary as hell. It was/is hard as hell. I finally can say with sincere conviction that it is worth it.
I was lucky to have someone that I actually trusted challenge me. The thing is though that if she had challenged me when we first met I would have been like, peace out. I needed to trust her. I needed also to be ready. I don't know how to be ready. I just was. I never have had any DUIs, medical detoxes, etc. I am definitely an alcoholic. It blows my mind how much alcohol has hijacked from me. I feel grateful to have gotten into recovery now.
If I could say a few words to get you drinking without guilt and happy in life I would. I just sort of guess that you are like me and that probably won't happen for you. In any case I suggest trying the best you can to stay away from your rational mind which can play all sorts of fun tricks, I know mine did, and try to really examine on a deep level what alcohol and drugs mean to you. It may help you choose a direction.
The one thing I do remember is this. And I think this might have been a pivotal moment. My therapist finally challenged me. My therapist who had sat through all my stories of alcohol, all my rationalizations, all my rules, everything, and listened to my basic desperation, my unhappiness for years finally was like "You have to stop." And I started to cry and said, "But that is all that I have." I think in that moment I was actually faced with really, truly giving up alcohol, and saw myself breaking down, part of me saw how much it was a part of my life, "all that I had," and that to give it up would feel like giving up my husband or my best friend or something of the like. Part of me realized that there was something warped in believing that alcohol was all that I had. And all the games and strategies that I had been playing over the last few years had been a desperate attempt to keep something in my life that I knew shouldn't be. My therapist said to me, "I guarantee you it is not all that you have." I did not believe her then. And I went into sobriety on a sort of faith, by which I mean I had no idea what was going to happen, what was going to take the place of something that had been so forefront in my life. I felt blind and alone and skeptical. It was scary as hell. It was/is hard as hell. I finally can say with sincere conviction that it is worth it.
I was lucky to have someone that I actually trusted challenge me. The thing is though that if she had challenged me when we first met I would have been like, peace out. I needed to trust her. I needed also to be ready. I don't know how to be ready. I just was. I never have had any DUIs, medical detoxes, etc. I am definitely an alcoholic. It blows my mind how much alcohol has hijacked from me. I feel grateful to have gotten into recovery now.
If I could say a few words to get you drinking without guilt and happy in life I would. I just sort of guess that you are like me and that probably won't happen for you. In any case I suggest trying the best you can to stay away from your rational mind which can play all sorts of fun tricks, I know mine did, and try to really examine on a deep level what alcohol and drugs mean to you. It may help you choose a direction.
Your attitude, not your aptitude, will determine your altitude
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxnard (The Nard), CA, USA.
Posts: 13,898
Just querious Paul. Do you feel you have been heard on your thread?
What I have heard is, your ambivalent about having sobriety or periodic alcoholic abuse. That is to say that your torn between the two. What interest me is all the responses you have been given. Are some of them helpful and are there those that do frustrate the matter? What would you like me to do so as to be helpful to you need to be encouraged and supported?
What I have heard is, your ambivalent about having sobriety or periodic alcoholic abuse. That is to say that your torn between the two. What interest me is all the responses you have been given. Are some of them helpful and are there those that do frustrate the matter? What would you like me to do so as to be helpful to you need to be encouraged and supported?
Last edited by Zencat; 04-25-2009 at 02:13 PM. Reason: Ack bad grammer
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 26,425
SF pretty well sumed up what i expereinced ... DK... everyone's moment of realization and the words and cercumstances that make it happen are diffreent.
Maybe it is a time where it would be helpful for you to decide what you need to do to get where you want to be....
I'm happy to walk with you, but my expereince was that the path i chose was the one i choose of all the different paths offered to me at the time...and it worked out mostly well for me so far....
The main thing was that i made a decision and took a direction....I hope you can do that too.
mixed in with the crap there have been alot of things posted that were helpful to me...so i thank you for that DK
and you know you can pm or ***** me any time of course (hug)
Maybe it is a time where it would be helpful for you to decide what you need to do to get where you want to be....
I'm happy to walk with you, but my expereince was that the path i chose was the one i choose of all the different paths offered to me at the time...and it worked out mostly well for me so far....
The main thing was that i made a decision and took a direction....I hope you can do that too.
mixed in with the crap there have been alot of things posted that were helpful to me...so i thank you for that DK
and you know you can pm or ***** me any time of course (hug)
Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 165
Originally Posted by doorknob
I'll never really know exactly what effect my experiences with AA have had on me, but my feeling is that my involvement with them has not been particularly helpful to my sense of well being. That said, I chose my path and take responsibility for my decisions and my actions.
I was sober and going to meetings for a solid six months until I did the unthinkable and changed my environment and started a relationship with the love of my life. The implanted voices and the people in my group told me I would fail because I wasn't supposed to start a new relationship for a minimum of a year. But my heart and soul told me I needed to be with Robert so I moved from Michigan to Wisconsin to start our new life. I'm glad I did, because he needed me as he was dying of AIDS, we just didn't know it at the time as we were dumb 20-somethings, but fate would catch up with us later. I held his hand when he took his last breath. But I did start drinking again. I started smoking pot first, then a few beers. But I didn't go on the benders I was promised. After Robert died, I did go on the drinking benders. I drank until I passed out. Every day. I wanted so badly to kill myself, but I didn't have the courage so I drank to at least kill the me inside of me because I hated feeling cheated that the person I loved most in the world was taken away, and he was only 28 when he died.
Eventually I found my way back to AA and convinced myself my drinking patterns were the result of my disease progressing, not the result of extraordinary grief and depression. I wandered back and forth to the rooms for several more years and worked the steps like in a sincere effort. But somewhere I realized it doesn't make sense, it seemed like psycho-babble hocus-pokus and seemed to illogical much like the Catholic faith I had long walked away from previously.
I know, sincerely in my heart, that for some people AA works. I don't want to bash AA as I may one day needed it again, just like someday I may go back to church. But it's not because I believe in the dogma of AA or the dogma of church, but I believe in the strength of community. Of all the things I miss, it's the community of AA and the community of church. Once I can resolve the conflict I feel with the "rules" and "regulations" of those institutions and to truly take what I need and leave the rest, I just might return. I just may need the AA community again, even if I don't need the steps.
Doorknob, I lurk here more than I post, but you are truly one of my favorite members of this forum. When I see that you have posted something, I am more than likely going to click to read what you have written. I identify with your struggle, I am a 42 year old man on a similar path and I am thankful that you share your struggle. I wish you the best, most importantly I wish you happiness.
Peace!
Knucklehead
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Davenport, WA
Posts: 4,005
Originally Posted by zencat
Just querious Paul. Do you feel you have been heard on your thread?
What I have heard is, your ambivalent about having sobriety or periodic alcoholic abuse. That is to say that your torn between the two. What interest me is all the responses you have been given. Are some of them helpful and are there those that do frustrate the matter? What would you like me to do so as to be helpful to you need to be encouraged and supported?
What I have heard is, your ambivalent about having sobriety or periodic alcoholic abuse. That is to say that your torn between the two. What interest me is all the responses you have been given. Are some of them helpful and are there those that do frustrate the matter? What would you like me to do so as to be helpful to you need to be encouraged and supported?
I've heard lots of ideas and have much to think about. I have a week to make up my mind as to what I want to do (for my therapist). I have a hard time relating to the folks who's alcohol addiction has been really severe, because most of the time I drink just enough to catch a buzz. And I could probably go on for years without ever becoming severely physically addicted, etc. But the thing is, I do get obsessed with having that buzz everyday, and the longer I keep it up, the harder it is to break the habit again. If I have pot, I can leave alcohol alone for the most part, but that become habitual as well. I seem to be habitual about everything I do, for better or worse, this forum included. So, the ambivalence is whether I want to live my live slightly medicated much of the time or face the world straight. And of course, I know which is the healthier choice, and I had a 4 1/2 month taste of it. The CBA is probably a good idea, and part of my therapists assignment. I hope that makes sense to somebody, lol...
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