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Time to tone it down a bit.

Old 03-25-2009, 06:05 PM
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Time to tone it down a bit.

If I saw someone posting negative statements about the secular forum I would have it removed. Please show respect for the other forums and the members who post on those forums.

I know you're having fun, but try to tone it down a bit so it's not offensive to other's programs or religious beliefs.

Thank you
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Old 03-25-2009, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Morning Glory View Post
If I saw someone posting negative statements about the secular forum I would have it removed. Please show respect for the other forums and the members who post on those forums.

I know you're having fun, but try to tone it down a bit so it's not offensive to other's programs or religious beliefs.

Thank you
With all due respect, and I do appreciate this forum, there has to be a safe place for dissension. Perhaps I am wrong, but AA dominates the landscape. I only ask that those of us who do disagree have a voice. Thank you, Katie.
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Old 03-25-2009, 08:38 PM
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You have a voice here. That doesn't mean you need to use it in a negative way.

Think about how you might feel if there was a whole thread on another forum putting down the secular forum and speaking negatively about secular beliefs and secular programs and making fun of secular members. Those kind of threads are what kept the secular forum from being a positive place for recovery for about 3 years. This forum is doing well and has been positive and the members are growing.

This forum has nothing to do with AA. The forum shouldn't be used to go mix with those who practice AA and then come over here and vent about it. You have a choice to stay away from that program when you post on this forum. If you don't stay away then that is your choice. No one forces it on anyone. That's why we have so many forums here.

The secular forum is not meant to be a safe place to bash.

So my suggestion is to stay away from it. That would solve the problem.
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Old 03-25-2009, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Morning Glory View Post
You have a voice here. That doesn't mean you need to use it in a negative way.

Think about how you might feel if there was a whole thread on another forum putting down the secular forum and speaking negatively about secular beliefs and secular programs and making fun of secular members. Those kind of threads are what kept the secular forum from being a positive place for recovery for about 3 years. This forum is doing well and has been positive and the members are growing.

This forum has nothing to do with AA. The forum shouldn't be used to go mix with those who practice AA and then come over here and vent about it. You have a choice to stay away from that program when you post on this forum. If you don't stay away then that is your choice. No one forces it on anyone. That's why we have so many forums here.

The secular forum is not meant to be a safe place to bash.

So my suggestion is to stay away from it. That would solve the problem.
All I can say is ok.
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Old 03-25-2009, 09:59 PM
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Yeah, silence myself, IOW. Ok, I can do that for a while. We'll see how it goes. I am not the kind of person for whom that works well, as I am a product of the 60s. But we'll see how it goes.
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Old 03-25-2009, 10:31 PM
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There was a time several years ago here when some terrible members from Rational Recovery came through here and tore the place apart. It really drove me out of my mind. It was so distressing I would be in tears by the end of the night. There were many members who couldn't take it and quit due to the constant harassment. These members were very cruel and very disruptive and wouldn't leave anyone alone. The owners at that time allowed it to continue for a long time.

I had to learn to tolerate it and couldn't really say anything. At the time I had no say. I finally learned tolerance and learned to look at how they might feel from their point of view. They were actually here to cause a lot of problems, but I learned a lesson through it all. That lesson is what allowed me look at the secular members here and see that they had no safe place to post. That lesson is what had me convince others here that a secular forum would work. I took full responsibility for the forum and worked hard to see that it was successful. It wasn't easy.

Those RR trolls were my first contact with secular recovery. If I had continued to bash and resent RR and secular recovery for all the damage they caused and not get past it there probably wouldn't be a secular forum here. I really had to work hard to get through my resentments. Holding onto resentments only hurts me and in this case it would have hurt the secular members here also.

I'm not asking anyone to do what I haven't done myself. I still don't have a place here to express my beliefs. The first time I tried was this week and the thread got closed, lol.
I would consider you fortunate to have this forum. I wish I had one, but I would be the only person posting on it.
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Old 03-26-2009, 04:52 AM
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Katie, MG just means we should "tone down" any mocking and bashing of others means of recovery. Sounds reasonable to me.
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Old 03-26-2009, 07:07 AM
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sounds reasonable to me

I come here for recovery, not to wage war....I love secular, but I get very little from bashing of other programs or members....not that I don't go there cause i have my moments...I just don't want to get stuck there, or see SR get stuck there

:ghug:ghug

Thanks guys for being here
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Old 03-26-2009, 07:53 AM
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I get a lot out of both secular and 12 step and my personal program is a combination of RR., SMART, and 12 step. I read most of the posts on all of the sections and although I am most comfortable here I learn a lot from just reading elsewhere.
MG is right of course, we are all here to get and remain sober and it is better for everyone if the two groups could get along and work TOGETHER for the benefit of all.
I have probably been guilty of some of the aforementioned behavior and that is why I am working on my tolerance and patience.
Thanks for the reminder Morning Glory.
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Old 03-26-2009, 08:52 AM
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I apologize for my sarcasm @ terminal uniqueness, if that's what started it.
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Old 03-26-2009, 12:33 PM
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Old 03-26-2009, 01:09 PM
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I'm trying to be tolerant too, but its hard when AA people are constantly judging others in the sub forums. They're not victims. They initiate 90% of the arguments by making creepy generalizations then blame the secular peeps for causing strife when someone challenges their dogma. All secular people are asking is to respect the fact that some of us don't like the program and will never work it.
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Old 03-26-2009, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Eroica View Post
I'm trying to be tolerant too, but its hard when AA people are constantly judging others in the sub forums. They're not victims. They initiate 90% of the arguments by making creepy generalizations then blame the secular peeps for causing strife when someone challenges their dogma. All secular people are asking is to respect the fact that some of us don't like the program and will never work it.

Thank you, Eroica.
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Old 03-26-2009, 02:09 PM
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The point Eroica made is quite valid. I think that subjects that are clearly AA related be moved to the 12 step section instead of in the newcomers section.
When I post in the newcomers section I try very hard to be encouraging without mentioning my program.
The issue that is probably responsible for this thread is clearly an AA term and would likely mean nothing to someone that is just starting on the road to recovery.
Was the OP bating the more outspoken seculars into yet another confrontation? I cannot speculate on that.
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Old 03-26-2009, 02:17 PM
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I know it's difficult.

I am not AA or secular. I take a little bit of everything to survive my day. I think I can look at it from a neutral point of view since I'm not involved.

I've seen the AA program pushed in posts even when the original poster told others they weren't interested and I've seen the secular sarcastic one liners in threads that were off topic.

Talking about how it makes you feel in a personal way is much different than bashing and mocking. I think I've always encouraged posts on personal experiences and struggles with programs.
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Old 03-26-2009, 02:40 PM
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Hello, folks.

I’m not sure what particular threads or posts in the Secular section this thread is in regards to. I’ll venture a guess and say that it might refer to the “I will only…” thread.

One of the threads I started in the Newcomers section got way out of hand and I asked a mod too late to shut it down. I should have asked sooner--that’s my fault. I wrongly assumed one would see it and close it.

I know I’m not special here, but I’m wondering if my thread was the catalyst for spin-off threads, one of which I’ve read (and not posted to) in which I find some comments to be offensive (I know others disagree…it’s all a matter of opinion). I think that the “I will only…” thread was a way for people to vent, for right or wrong.


It’s frustrating to come here and be criticized for not following someone else’s method or opinions of recovery. Anytime I or someone else voice concerns that are contrary to the majority, it is inevitable that someone comes along and makes accusations that the dissenter is advocating using, or says that the dissenter is in denial, or uses phrases like “terminally unique” and “dry drunk”, or implies strongly that the person who dissents is going to die, and the list goes on. It is tiresome. I really dread coming to SR sometimes because of this. When this happens, I feel the need to defend and then everything gets really messy.
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Old 03-26-2009, 03:05 PM
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something that works well for me when i can do it...is to carefully post one time and then stay out of the chaos....Once i become defensive i can soon get into a swinging match with anyone in the way...I have gotten to that point in secular and in the 12 step....doesn't seem to be that is is any one specific point of veiw or person taht this can happen with.

I call it wirling karmas...the law of cause and effect...the first effect becomes the cause of the next effect....so i can either move things in a positive direction or a negative one or remain neutral.

When I am off or am particulary sensitive on a certain issue I dont' do so hot at this, but when I can I try to remember not to feed the wirlwind and to state my expereince or even opinion at times and move on.

if it's really bugging me i pm someone and rant for a while...that helps alot.
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Old 03-26-2009, 03:14 PM
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fwiw, I didn't realise others were seeing terminally unique as an AA thing something akin to dry drunk. I'm not in AA, never been in AA, so that connection passed me by a little.

I do know, from my own experience, that one can feel so unique, so weighed down with their individual hell, that they miss opportunities to recover, or they discount the experience of other alcoholics as non applicable. I did that. Lots.

Whether or not others feel it's a valid concept or not is up to them.

I've enjoyed my time here in Secular, but so much time lately seems to be taken up with AA, that it's no longer beneficial to my recovery to be here.

I'm not AA - I made that choice - I don't see why I have to read endless, and negative, discussion about something I'm not interested in.

Noone here at SR is evil. We all want to help. If someone thinks the solution to my problem is AA, so what? Smile, be polite and move on with your own journey.

I've seen talk here about intimidation, but I've also seen people from here parachuting into the 12 step forum, guns blazing.

I used to do that. I realised it wasn't for anyones good but my own. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Its not just that tho.

I also realise that, altho God was not part of my recovery, being a believer is part of my life now and I feel increasingly uncomfortable here.

It never used to be that way - this was the catch all forum for the free thinkers who didn't fit in anywhere else - AA or not, anything goes....

but I guess things change...and this is the Secular forum LOL

I have no resentments or rancour. You have your journeys as I have mine. I wish you all well

See ya around

D
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Old 03-26-2009, 03:36 PM
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It has always been the case that when threads in Newcomers are about AA, or if someone even mentions AA then arguments happen, not all the time but often. Being called a "dry drunk" or not a "real alcoholic" really is annoying and I have seen it happen often.

It is funny Dee mentioned "two wrongs don't make a right", I was thinking that after reading some of this thread. That is basically what it is about, declaring "well they started it" is a bit pointless isn't it?
However I must admit I have done my fair share of AA bashing in the past, I try to let things slide a bit more these days. Nit-picking and bickering is not the reason why we are here.
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Old 03-27-2009, 08:56 PM
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There is venting - and we all need to get something off our chest at times - and then there is bashing or ranting, which is inappropriate, unconstructive and serves nothing. I would never do it to anyone else.

It's too bad because I have respect for the secular programs, they have a lot of good resources. It'd be great to have a free and open exchange of ideas here. But as it is I'm navigating away.
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