gneiss

LMM, I wasn't trying to jump on you or make you feel bad. I was also not trying to offend, and I didn't mean to pick on you. Sorry.

LosingmyMisery

No, you and others are right in pointing a few things out. It is a good time to step back and re-think things. Although my posts are intended to help, they may be doing harm instead of good. I don't want to be that person. I thought your post was very well thought out. No need to apologize.

gneiss

Thanks, LMM. Just don't think you're the only one. I've said some things that didn't come out the way I meant, we all have. That's normal. I like reading your posts, and I appreciate that you are thoughtful in what you say.

Comments for everyone:
I could take apart most of the posts on this thread, or in the entire forum probably, if I wanted to. Especially when I've had a relapse or a bad day in terms of addiction or anything else, I tend to take things in the most negative way possible. So as much as we could all work on phrasing things (language is so inexact anyway!!), I think most of us-- with me at the top of the list-- could work on not taking comments negatively unless it's undeniably negative.

I admit I only read the forum rules for the 1st time last night, and there was a really great suggestion: if you're offended, do not reply for 30 minutes. I think we all want the best for each other and in general no one is trying to be negative, but sometimes it's too tempting to fire off the reply before thinking about what the person might be trying to say.

LosingmyMisery

Good suggestion. I'm always open to good suggestions.

gneiss

I feel like singing *Happy Shiny People Holding Hands*

LosingmyMisery

Sorry, I don't know that one.

How about a solo?

Ananda

you guys just cracked me up

ok..now i'm covering my ears.......

gneiss

Trust me, I have a voice made for a career as a mime. And a face made for radio!!!

Live

That IS REALLY VERY FUNNY!!!!!
Can I borrow that line?

gneiss

It's not really theft once you ask, so please feel free to use it. I stole it anyway

michelle01

Actually, I sympathize. When I saw a thread called 'Terminal Uniqueness' posted my first thought was 'good grief'. I even posted to clarify that it is originally an AA term, and I'm still not really sure if it's appropriate to have it in the Newcomers forum. But there were people who were non AA who felt that they could relate to it in some way, based on their personal experience, and there were some good shares in the end, which were of value to me as well. I think that inevitably we are going to use language and concepts from the programs we've based our recovery on - there are appropriate and inappropriate ways of doing that, and we should try to be aware and appreciate that not all others may share our views.

I took exception to a thread in this section which I decided to stop posting on. On that note, bowing out of the matter.

sfgirl

I read this whole thread last night and all I could think is why do people get so worked up about programs? I have never had a program except my own and I will admit that I was very angry towards AA in the beginning. However, that dissipated the more I got sober and the more I learned precisely because it has given me a lot even though I don't attend. But like Michelle01 said above concepts aren't proprietary to a program even if that program gave them language. I do find quite a few concepts in AA pertaining to me, and of course quite a few do not. But I can't get mad if someone wants to discuss it because I usually learn more—even if that is to stay away.

I completely understand getting frustrated with dogmatic, proselytizing people. In fact the more I read about the history of AA, the more I want to scream at these people do you know how much you would probably be angering your founders? I highly suggest reading the history of AA it might give you a new found respect for it because a lot of it is very different than sometimes it comes off. However, I can't condemn someone of being closed-minded and stay closed-minded myself. And more importantly I really don't want to close off programs to any area of the board because would that mean closing off ideas key to recovery just because AA happens to include them? That would be unfortunate.

gneiss

This reminds me of a Mohandas Gandhi quote:

I am not posting this as a religious attack. I post because it's the same with AA, I think. The program, at its core, seems set on helping people get through their addiction and live a better lifestyle. I've read several things in AA literature, including the BB, basically stating that AA was not intended to be the only way, that it should not be drawn into public controversy, and it is there for the benefit of the people who get something out of it. Basically, if you think AA is not right for you, don't use it.

The conflict starts when people who feel they can't get sober without AA feel that no one else can, either. AA says people should be wary of this attitude, but some people get a little self-righteous about it (this could be said of any other program as well). I've noticed that it is often the people early in recovery who feel this way. The longer someone has been sober, the more they seem to chill out to a "whatever works" attitude. We've all been through early recovery-- I'm still there-- and my emotions are FRIGGIN' CRAZY. Constant ups and downs. So anything that helps is likely to be latched onto and defended vehemently on an emotional level.

I don't do AA, but I think it has a lot of valuable tools. So my quote, with apologies to Mohandas Gandhi:

doorknob

That's why I love LifeRing so much. There is no prescribed, capital "P" program, and no dogma other than sobriety itself. Nothing to argue about, nothing to defend...