lunarise

I just wanted to mention that sometimes remembering the OPs intention can help me keep perspective. People generally want to share what works for them, be it about finances, relationships, or recovery options. I believe that a persons intense need to share their ideas comes from a deep desire to see others happy. They are sooo excited that they just must tell people about how they got IT, whatever IT may be, to share their wealth of knowledge. This keeps me from getting overly upset when someone is a little "pushy" or rather "excited" about the way that they do things. SOme may say this is naive but I believe people are good from the get go.

So I guess what I am saying is maybe we could all try and see how much these OTHER(?) people must think of us that they want to share what they have that is making them happy. No not everyone is always nice about it but like I said I try to remember the OPs ORIGINAL intent, helps me.....just thought I would share.

doorknob

There are two (maybe more) ongoing threads on the board right now that are basically rants about how frustrating it is that some people will not conform or surrender to "The" Program. Whatever...

gneiss

I have very limited experience with AA. I went to one meeting where some dude hit on me and I felt generally creeped out by the people there, though they were nice to me, and I never went back, and never found (or even really tried to find) another meeting to attend. The other reason I don't do AA is I can't accept the religious aspects of it and feel like if I was going to commit to AA I would need to be able to accept the program as it is.

The above statements are accurate, have absolutely nothing to do with anyone else, why they should or should not choose a particular program, or what they should believe. Yet, I find myself walking on eggshells when I mention my experiences (I always put a little parenthetical note that I'm not AA-bashing) because I have noticed on several threads a tendency to write off anyone who does not conform to AA's dogma. The attitude conveyed is, "Fine. Don't work AA. Just keep on drinking, because there's no hope for you." I'm not sitting in an AA meeting, and I don't post on the 12-step forums (in fact, I don't believe I've ever even looked in on a 12-step forum), so why should I have to stick to their party line? That idea that there's no hope for anyone not in AA is extremely destructive, in my mind. I have to believe that every druggie and alcoholic is capable of coming back, because if there's no hope for someone else, I feel like there might not be any hope for me.

LosingmyMisery

Right, whatever, but I've noticed that the secular gang feel free to drop off their sarcasm and negative comments and leave, on other alcoholism forums. They are usually a couple of one liners and really don't share anything the pertains to a sobering experience in their own life. I think experience is the best kind of help. If someone enters into the secular post to offer their experience and opinion, they are attacked and chastised for invading their safe zone. Honestly, the ones I see talking about AA the most, in the secular form, are the ones claiming that they will only post in the secular forum.

I find that a bit odd, but one thing for certain. I know I'm not welcome because I'm labeled as AA and having nothing of good use to say. The fact of the matter is, I haven't attended AA in years. I don't try to conform anyone into recovery. I could care less what they choose.

What does bother me are the same people not using a program and not happy with their life because they still aren't sober. I guess the answer is to just let them be instead of trying to nudge them out of their rut. I really don't know what the answer is any more. So for now, I will stick with those who want help. The others, I guess will find their own way, or not.

Bamboozle

And who might that be? Did you ask these "same people" if they are sober? Did you ask them exactly what they do on a daily basis to stay sober/work on their own personal recovery? What exactly constitutes a program?

My happiness, I've discovered quite recently, has nothing to do with whether I'm sober or not. I'm mentally ill.

My "program" is:

-therapy
-SR
-journaling when I need to (that's a new thing for me...sometimes it's good to write down what I'm thinking/feeling)
-listening to music
-going for walks
-taking pictures
-searching for random crap on the internet

It’s not organized and approved by all, but it is mine. It’s what works for me.

Oh yeah, and I'm working on 4 days in a row sober today after my 2 week or so relapse after having a personal best of 80 days in a row sober, in case anyone wanted to know.

chris1959

I'm Chris I'm an alcoholic and a drug addict. I read all the different forums, all the time. I learn from everybody and if I find that something works, I use it. If not I discard it. When I was new to AA I used to wave the AA banner all the way back to the barstool. How the oldtimers chuckled.

I read lots of posts by people claiming to be members of AA and trying to convince those who are not that AA is the way. Why ? Because many of them don't know what they're talking about. Many do not even know anything about AA. AA is based on "atraction rather than promotion" We state clearly, "If you want what we have." It does not say, "you need to do this program or you will die."

when I share; I share what I do to stay clean and sober on a daily basis.

To those of you who claim to be members of AA, carry the message not the disease please. You can't give away what you don't have. And maybe read the traditoins and learn more about AA, where humility is the principle foundation.

Tradition Ten for example states; "Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy."

Altruism is the spirit and goal of my recovery and it doesn't matter to me how you git 'er done. If I am clean and sober today, I have a fighting chance at a better life.

Bravo to us all!

Fubarcdn

Good job of toning it down everyone.

Bamboozle

I detect sarcasm? I love ya, Fub.

SelfSeeking

Thanks Chris, I saw myself in your post... I think I used a "scare tactic" on another member yesterday and I have felt bad ever since.

LosingmyMisery

Well good luck on your 4 days sober and your new program. I hope it works well for you.

To answer your question, I'm referring to people who have been coming here for years and keep relapsing, but don't want to work a program because nothing suits them. They keep trying to find a program that works for them, but haven't found it yet. I guess if it is okay for them, it shouldn't matter to me. However, my belief is that we give back.

I'm not here to harass anyone, just trying to move someone along who keeps taking one step forward and two steps back. I really don't feel I need to ask them what there program is because it seems to me, if one keeps relapsing, their way isn't working.

Speaking for myself, my happiness is contingent on my sobriety 100%. I suffer from debilitating anxiety and depression which alcohol fuels . I take medication for it to keep it in check. If I drink, my meds don't work. That is what I have learned. I've emerged from a world of misery into a world where I now know contentment. I never thought it was possible, bit it is. Even for this hopeless drunk.

gneiss

This is meant as an observation, not a personal attack on anyone. I took the name off the quote. Obviously it's not hard to see where it came from, but this is not a personal statement, so who said it is not important. This is chock full of rhetorical questions, I am writing food for thought. If anyone wants to address a question or issue, feel free but it is not necessary.

Look at the way the above quote is phrased: The "secular gang" does horrible things as a group. I feel like I've been lumped into a marauding pack of atheists. This is a blanket statement and it immediately made me defensive. So I took a deep breath and I thought about it for a few minutes.

I know I have gotten out of line on the boards (heck, I even got a thread locked off once, and I'm still embarrassed about my behavior on that one), but I don't recall dumping a bunch of negativity on a thread then running away. But this statement makes me feel like I am guilty of such a thing. Maybe I am and I didn't even realize it? I try to check up on the threads where I have posted because it's so easy to take things wrong.

So maybe the statement isn't about me? Because, as previously discussed (was it even on this thread, or a different one?), not every statement is about me. Even though I am the center of my own universe, I am apparently not the center of everyone else's... shocking discovery, that. Hard not to take it personally, as I tend to post almost exclusively on SC.

On to the other thing:
Why is the secular gang up to no good, but only individual 12-steppers? When I have noticed secular peeps on other boards, they seem to be acting as individuals (in both positive and negative interactions), not ganging up on anyone. Besides, if they were ganging up, wouldn't they stick around and help their buddies rather than dump a negative post or two and leave?

Perhaps that's not how the above comments were intended, but that's how I read them. I could have picked apart the rest of the post in a similar manner but I don't believe they were meant to do harm or make anyone mad or defensive. And that's exactly the point: it's hard to know how your comments will be taken. I'm sure I ticked off someone here, though I definitely didn't mean to. So maybe we all need to pay attention to what we say and how we say it, and also not be so quick to get defensive.

Just my thoughts.

gneiss

Whoa. That was a really long post. Sorry, kids.

nocoincidence56

Something I am guilty of and I see causing and perpetuating discord among us, PRIDE...:horse

Eroica

Why is the smiley hitting the dead horse on its crotch?

Fubarcdn

Yhis is a good area of discussion Eroica. I think that that rogue smiley belongs here.

Live

I personally am sitting here admiring Morning Glory's patience and tolerance.....
as this thread has gone so far from it's original intent.

Morning Glory

I have a son who is an addict. If I start following him around to show him the way to recovery I need to start looking at my own recovery and my need to control. I've had to learn what is helpful behavior and what is controlling behavior and stand back and let him find his own way. I share all the information I have and share information on where he can get help and then it's time for me to back off. I've learned not to go knocking at his door even though I feel his life depends on finding sobriety.

I can't remember the saying, but it goes something like, Say it once and it's helpful. Say it more than once and it's controlling.

doorknob

My mom is very aware of my struggles with OCD and then OCD and alcohol. She'll do anything to help me, but does not push. All my attempts at recovery have been self-initiated. She also understands my struggle in finding face to face support in a secular venue.

Katie09

Well, I do so appreciate everyone's post in this thread, and especially you MorningGlory, for your patience and tolerance.

For me, I am just coming off of a horrendous deal. I have been researching the Net today, in which I find allegations of this rehab where I went to and their abusing of patients. So, perhaps I have been a little less than tolerant of 12 step programs.

As for me, I find SR to be an invaluable resource. I so love to reach out to the members here. We are all here for a common purpose - to get and stay sober and to live life. That is our goal, right?

To this end, I seek to cause no animosity in any of my threads, but at times I need to share "where I am at." I am grateful for the patience and understanding other SR members have shown me.

LosingmyMisery

I owe an apology. I should not have made a blanket statement. What I should have said is a few of the secular gang. Obviously, not everyone does this. It is true, words surely can be found offensive and **** someone off when they weren't intended to do so. With that, I am sorry if I offended anyone with my posts.