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So now the therapist says I am to go to five AA meetings a week?

Old 03-19-2009, 12:06 PM
  # 161 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by bugsworth View Post
Katie...my 2 cents for what it is worth. I don't like much of what aa teaches, I find the program seriously flawed and the excuses made for the obvious flaws redundant. However I am sober...you my friend, have been abusing alcohol for 32 years from your account of the situation. 32 years is a long time to have not found a solution that resonates for you. Your focus needs to be on what works, not on what does not.
I don't drink Katie...that's what works for me and many sober SR members...it's a proven method and works 100% of the time.
Thanks, bugsworth, I do appreciate your post. I don't know what is going to work for me. What I know for sure is that AA does not. That's ok. At times I feel like my only options are to go to AA or drink. Obviously, AA has not worked for me. It's been so long that I've been in the cycle that I just don't know what to say. I honestly feel like all my options are disappearing. Nonetheless, I have to get out of this place where I am at. I know that. I don't belong in this town - I am out of my element, so to speak.

The person who has been helping me had 18 years of sobriety in AA. He has long since bailed on the whole deal. He does get where I am coming from, FWIW. His first meeting was in 1961. Things have changed since then, according to him. Heck, things have changed since 1977, when I went to my first AA meeting.

So...I will continue to plod along. Who knows where things are going to end up. I sure don't. All I can do is to take it one day at a time and do the best I can do.
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Old 03-19-2009, 12:13 PM
  # 162 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by jimhere View Post
No.

The reason she stopped posting on the other forums is because people started to see through the b.s. and stopped buying into it and co-signing it.

It isn't about secular, non-secular, whatever. Alcoholics die of alcoholism. She just came over here where you guys can love her to death.
No. Jimhere.

The reason I stopped posting on the other forums is I want to escape AA - hence the secular forum. I don't know how to put it across any other way - but I want to escape AA and the one safe place (although really not, it would seem) is in the secular forum. I grow weary of the standard AA stuff.
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Old 03-19-2009, 12:32 PM
  # 163 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Katie09 View Post
At times I feel like my only options are to go to AA or drink.
Why? How did you arrive at that conclusion?
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Old 03-19-2009, 12:56 PM
  # 164 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by doorknob View Post
Why? How did you arrive at that conclusion?

I arrived at this many years ago. AA dominates the landscape. There are no other alternatives (at least not which have taken hold of yet). So...where does a person go for help who doesn't buy into the whole 12 step deal? Options are very limited, as you know.

I see no reason to label myself or go into an antiquated "program." No, there has to be something better out there to conform with 2009 - not 1935. Unfortunately, we're not there yet and that is my greatest frustration.

I've almost considered moving back up to the Bay Area just to go to LifeRing. It's a fantastic alternative to AA, just not widely spread.
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Old 03-19-2009, 01:07 PM
  # 165 (permalink)  
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Katie

Many here have shown that AA is not a requirement in order to find sobriety. I, and many others drank before AA and as I understand it...there have been people getting sober through out the ages without AA.

I have to watch my thinking when i start getting into thinking I may get drunk because of something out there wether it is AA (and believve me i have been there) or because of other life situations i find unbearable.

I hope you can keep your focus on what you will do next to support your recovery/sober time.

(hug)
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Old 03-19-2009, 01:26 PM
  # 166 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by ananda View Post
Katie

Many here have shown that AA is not a requirement in order to find sobriety. I, and many others drank before AA and as I understand it...there have been people getting sober through out the ages without AA.

I have to watch my thinking when i start getting into thinking I may get drunk because of something out there wether it is AA (and believve me i have been there) or because of other life situations i find unbearable.

I hope you can keep your focus on what you will do next to support your recovery/sober time.

(hug)
Thank you Ananda, yes I must. My friend will be gone soon and I'm on my own again, which is ok, as I am used to it. I've started back on the meds again, which may help. Called my therapist this a.m. and need to get in to see her ASAP. So...all in all, I think things will be ok (hoping)...
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Old 03-19-2009, 01:29 PM
  # 167 (permalink)  
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Hey we are on a similar path at the moment...just started back on my meds, and have contacted a councelor :ghug3
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Old 03-19-2009, 01:39 PM
  # 168 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by ananda View Post
Hey we are on a similar path at the moment...just started back on my meds, and have contacted a councelor :ghug3
Oh good, I don't know what meds you take, but I've got a cocktail. I'd ask for specifics, but don't know that's a good idea. At any rate, let's both get the help that we need.
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Old 03-19-2009, 01:41 PM
  # 169 (permalink)  
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Hey katie, you can make your own program!

I know how it feels for aa to be the only game in town for group support in sobriety.

I also wish there were more secular support groups.

The clichés / platitudes, attitude towards agnostics / atheists, pushing of god and the steps, indoctrination etc, all do my head in too.

I have friends i met in aa who i get on with, and rather than go to aa, i meet them for a coffee and a chat. Talk about how things are, or whatever we want.

Do you have sober friends / friends who are on the same journey you can meet up with? People who are dealing with addiction who you trust?

If not maybe you could try and meet some within aa, try to disregard the stuff you don't like, and then continue to meet those people outside of aa for informal non-religious mini meetings?

I find this has helped for me.

I used to think that because i couldn't get on with aa, i was doomed. In fact they imply that themselves! It's simply not true though.

This place helped me realise that.
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Old 03-19-2009, 01:46 PM
  # 170 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Katie09 View Post
So...where does a person go for help who doesn't buy into the whole 12 step deal? Options are very limited, as you know.
I disagree— for some reason I feel like you are seeing things as limited options. I feel like there are a hell of a lot of options for getting sober.

There are more types of therapies and therapists than I can count. There are a number a pharmacological therapies available as well. I could list them, or put links, but I am unwilling to put forth that effort if it will fall on deaf ears. I have been doing a lot of research lately and there are tons of different methods at play and being researched by both the scientific community and the government which is actually quite concerned with substance abuse issues.

Reality is often an issue of perspective and right now you seem to be seeing a very limited view of it.
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Old 03-19-2009, 01:56 PM
  # 171 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by sfgirl View Post
I disagree— for some reason I feel like you are seeing things as limited options. I feel like there are a hell of a lot of options for getting sober.

There are more types of therapies and therapists than I can count. There are a number a pharmacological therapies available as well. I could list them, or put links, but I am unwilling to put forth that effort if it will fall on deaf ears. I have been doing a lot of research lately and there are tons of different methods at play and being researched by both the scientific community and the government which is actually quite concerned with substance abuse issues.

Reality is often an issue of perspective and right now you seem to be seeing a very limited view of it.
Right. Campral, Naltrexone, Revia, all of the anti-depressants I've been on. CBT, DBT, etc. Pulease do NOT judge a person until you have walked in his/her footsteps. I read as well. I had a shrink in SF on California Street. Look, I know you have some great stuff to say, but I really don't need people accusing me of making excuses, not trying hard enough, not doing the research, etc. Thanks for your post.
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Old 03-19-2009, 02:11 PM
  # 172 (permalink)  
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I think you missed sfgirls point.

Millions of men and women got sober before 1935, millions more get sober today without AA. There's never been this many options in recovery before.

The bottom line is yr options are limited to what you're prepared to do - and that goes for any of us.

D
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Old 03-19-2009, 02:49 PM
  # 173 (permalink)  
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Finding 12 Step rehab, CD counselors, community support meetings, etc. is like finding McDonalds. Finding other resources takes a lot more looking and sometimes requires relocation. When I lived in Montana, I had to move to WA to find treatment. Then when I got out of treatment, AA members in that same community would trash the treatment center for using CBT as their model. It was discouraging to say the least. That was about the same time that I learned to use the internet and made my first attempt at starting a LifeRing meeting.

Last edited by doorknob; 03-19-2009 at 03:08 PM.
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Old 03-19-2009, 03:01 PM
  # 174 (permalink)  
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Katie,

Did you check out or call the rehab facility that Sfgirl posted a few pages back? I called and spoke to them and my post about the conversation is a few pages back as well. They are devoted to a client-centered therapy and have LifeRing and Smart Meetings it sounded amazing and if I had the money I would like to go there just to learn some new tools. Hell, I might want to vacation there.

I am not sure if you are still drinking but if you are please, please be careful mixing your medication with alcohol. It can be fatal, my husband said some nights he would stay awake because my breathing was so bad. It also decreases the medications effectiveness. I always thought the latter was BS until I stopped drinking and my medication started working again. Go figure, I guess one of those have to figure it out yourself things.

I am glad the cleaning crew is coming on Saturday. I know how easy it is to let "chores" go and then one day you are staring at a huge mess going "WTF, how am I going to clean this up and where do I even begin." Ironically, I always kept my kitchen and bathroom spotless but let my laundry clutter to the sky and boxes from move after move unpacked. I am still in the process of trying to sort it all out.

I am really glad you are going to spend some time with Jowinbo. I also mentioned before that my sister lives in the same general area but she is heavy into AA. She is also the kind of person that with all her faults will adopt someone and hold there hand through recovery so if you want I can contact her. I know you said no AA and I am not a Member or advocating just putting the offer out there if you really need a sober friend.

Last edited by Sara9009; 03-19-2009 at 03:06 PM. Reason: typing extraordinaire today
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Old 03-19-2009, 03:18 PM
  # 175 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Sara9009 View Post
Katie,

Did you check out or call the rehab facility that Sfgirl posted a few pages back? I called and spoke to them and my post about the conversation is a few pages back as well. They are devoted to a client-centered therapy and have LifeRing and Smart Meetings it sounded amazing and if I had the money I would like to go there just to learn some new tools. Hell, I might want to vacation there.

I am not sure if you are still drinking but if you are please, please be careful mixing your medication with alcohol. It can be fatal, my husband said some nights he would stay awake because my breathing was so bad. It also decreases the medications effectiveness. I always thought the latter was BS until I stopped drinking and my medication started working again. Go figure, I guess one of those have to figure it out yourself things.

I am glad the cleaning crew is coming on Saturday. I know how easy it is to let "chores" go and then one day you are staring at a huge mess going "WTF, how am I going to clean this up and where do I even begin." Ironically, I always kept my kitchen and bathroom spotless but let my laundry clutter to the sky and boxes from move after move unpacked. I am still in the process of trying to sort it all out.

I am really glad you are going to spend some time with Jowinbo. I also mentioned before that my sister lives in the same general area but she is heavy into AA. She is also the kind of person that with all her faults will adopt someone and hold there hand through recovery so if you want I can contact her. I know you said no AA and I am not a Member or advocating just putting the offer out there if you really need a sober friend.
Thanks so much for your thoughtful post. I appreciate your comments. I did check out that website, but after dropping $5K, it's not in my future. I can't afford it or to make another mistake.

I look forward to meeting jowinbo, if the offer still stands. It would be great to meet someone in my shoes (or who was in my shoes). At any rate, thank you so much for your thoughtful post. :ghug
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Old 03-19-2009, 06:26 PM
  # 176 (permalink)  
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I understand you don't like people accusing you of making excuses, Katie, but what program are you working? You haven't found one that quite suits you yet. What are you going to do until you find one updated and agreeable? I think if you were to actively start working a program others would be less likely to think you are making excuses and more likely to believe you are making efforts.
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Old 03-19-2009, 07:03 PM
  # 177 (permalink)  
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I can't believe I am doing this:


Welcome to Women For Sobriety, Inc.
Women for Sobriety: Women recovering from problem drinking meet at 10 a.m. Saturdays at Sunrise Mountain Branch Library, 21200 N. 83rd Ave., Peoria. 584-4417 and 546-2771.

Agnostic AA in Phoenix
Agnostic Meeting
The Willow House
110 West McDowell Rd.
In the Little Theater Building
Sunday 6:00 p.m.

SMART Meetings
SMART Recovery® - Meetings
3 a week in Mesa
3 a week in Phoenix

SOS Meeting
States
There is one in Scottsdale!!!

IOP in Scottsdale that is not 12-step based
Alcohol and Drug Treatment Arizona, Scottsdale Treatment Institute, Arizona alcohol and drug treatment program, drug treatment program Arizona, alcohol treatment program Arizona, Scottsdale Treatment Institute



Treatment Finder, service provided by SAMHSA, Federal Gov't — Search by Location and Radius
Substance Abuse Treatment Facility Locator
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Old 03-19-2009, 08:01 PM
  # 178 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Katie09 View Post
I've started back on the meds again, which may help. Called my therapist this a.m. and need to get in to see her ASAP. So...all in all, I think things will be ok (hoping)...
Good for you Katie. Seeing my psychiatrist and counseling is a huge component of my recovery, just as taking it 'one day at a time' could sum up my entire treatment program. What other people think of my program is none of my business. I know there are others in recovery that like to lead me by the nose by telling me what to do rather than walk beside me and help me find my own way. They become so obsessed by their opinions that they fail to do anything other than berate and judge me. That type of person is toxic to me. And when I see it happening to others I notice the conversation becomes one of accusations and defensiveness. Not very helpful is it?
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Old 03-19-2009, 11:17 PM
  # 179 (permalink)  
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Loath as I am to make this into a meta-discussion of this thread, I really haven't seen any leading by the nose here, attempted or otherwise.

In this thread, at least, people seem at pains to allow Katie her head.

There have been many helpful suggestions here too - again, my general impression as an infrequent visitor, is people seem at pains not to berate or judge.

As someone else here said - there was nothing external that made me an alcoholic, and nothing external that helped keep me one.

It is an internal problem - a problem with me, and requires action, by me.

In one respect I agree with Zencat - what other people think of my programme is none of my business....providing of course I find, or design, myself a programme to work.

Whether you succeed or (hopefully not) fail, it will be down to you, Katie - as it should be.

Again, good luck.
D
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Old 03-20-2009, 10:57 AM
  # 180 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by sfgirl View Post
I can't believe I am doing this:


Welcome to Women For Sobriety, Inc.
Women for Sobriety: Women recovering from problem drinking meet at 10 a.m. Saturdays at Sunrise Mountain Branch Library, 21200 N. 83rd Ave., Peoria. 584-4417 and 546-2771.

Agnostic AA in Phoenix
Agnostic Meeting
The Willow House
110 West McDowell Rd.
In the Little Theater Building
Sunday 6:00 p.m.

SMART Meetings
SMART Recovery® - Meetings
3 a week in Mesa
3 a week in Phoenix

SOS Meeting
States
There is one in Scottsdale!!!

IOP in Scottsdale that is not 12-step based
Alcohol and Drug Treatment Arizona, Scottsdale Treatment Institute, Arizona alcohol and drug treatment program, drug treatment program Arizona, alcohol treatment program Arizona, Scottsdale Treatment Institute



Treatment Finder, service provided by SAMHSA, Federal Gov't — Search by Location and Radius
Substance Abuse Treatment Facility Locator
I can't believe you did this either! Thank you so much! I am going to look into all these resources. I don't know how to say thank you enough!
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