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So now the therapist says I am to go to five AA meetings a week?

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So now the therapist says I am to go to five AA meetings a week?

Old 03-14-2009, 09:37 PM
  # 101 (permalink)  
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That's an interesting take on things Zencat.

I consider myself to be a compassionate person and I don't believe that my comments regarding the circumstances with katie show a lack of compassion, in fact I don't think this has anything really much to do with compassion.

The facts are the facts and being honest about the situation would in my opinion show greater respect to Katie if she is willing to listen and consider them. There is a time for everything, but continually stroking her and falsely leading her to believe that she is doing all she can is unfair to her.

I think we all know one member who has gone to the ends of the earth to get help and would give her right arm for 1/2 of what Katie had available to her. This brave and unbeatable person deserves compassion as I think you mean "compassion" Not giving all you can to quit drinking when you SAY you do and string yourself and everyone along and bail at every turn before giving anything an honest go ...where does "compassion" come in?

If you don't like something I've said, you can be straight and disagree with me. Playing a game in stating "Oops, I gave Gerry a thanks and didn't mean to" isn't necessary and is an example of what I'm talking about.
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Old 03-14-2009, 09:59 PM
  # 102 (permalink)  
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Maybe we should all focus on helping the still suffering alchoholic (however we think we best do that) instead of one uping each other?

Katie, My expereince with treatment for alchoholism is that the main ingredient was my desire to find a way to deal with this disease. My commitment to find a path to recovery.

I had to decide that I was going to find a path to recovery regardless of anyone or anything....I then searched and found loving caring people to walk the path with me.

Please keep looking till you find this because I know it is possbile to find a way to stay sober (hug)
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Old 03-14-2009, 10:06 PM
  # 103 (permalink)  
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Please let's not continue to demean a member. I hope by now we know better than that. If I accidentally (and I have) hit a single button by accident, I let it go. No need to mention it on the forums.

So again, I'm reposting #4

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Old 03-15-2009, 12:14 AM
  # 104 (permalink)  
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From the link that Dgillz posted:

Let’s Start with AA: Although I neither endorse or use the AA method of maintaining sobriety, I’m not entirely against it as much as I am some of its teachings. Research suggests that (at best) 7% to 12% of those who try AA find success using its method. For that small percentage, AA provides an invaluable service and should be commended.

Unfortunately, AA provides a terrible disservice to the other 88% - 93% who are often (falsely) led to believe only AA can help them. A disservice to those who resist being labeled “diseased,” only to be told their objection is proof of their disease. A disservice to those who refuse to accept they’re powerless; only to be told they’re in denial. For the vast majority of people, AA’s dogmatic approach can actually impede sobriety. Given a false choice between drinking or AA, many take their chances with drinking.

AA, in my opinion, works best for those who’ve come to accept they have no control over their own behavior. For some, the idea their problems stem from a “disease” for which they’re not responsible is more than acceptable; it’s a relief. –And if “turning their life over to the care of God” (as AA suggests) is the solution, they’re more than happy to take that “step” along with all the rest. For this group, accepting and applying the AA approach is desirable and if in the end it helps them find the life they want, that is excellent.

However, the average person entertaining the idea of sobriety has a hard time accepting they are “powerless.” They don’t expect to be labeled “alcoholic” let alone “diseased” and they’re generally less than thrilled with the concept of surrendering their life to a “power greater than themselves.” For this other group, it’s unfortunate AA offers no alternatives. Either you’re an alcoholic who has got to work the “12 steps” or you’re not. Either you suffer from the “disease” alcoholism and will be “recovering” the rest of your life, or you’re not. Simply stated, the AA / 12 step approach just isn’t practical for most of us.

Again, I’d like to make clear it’s not my intent to slam AA or the other 12 step programs currently available. Although I disagree with much of what they and the medical community teach, I recognize their approach has saved lives and brought a lot of good people together. If AA works for you or someone you love, I am happy for you or them because anything, in most cases, is better than the problems encountered with regular substance abuse.

My primary goal in writing this is to shed light on a different approach. An approach for those who don’t believe they’re “powerless.” An approach for those who have confidence their problems can actually be solved instead of just “treated” the rest of their lives. Dare I say, a “1-step” approach that goes right to the heart of the struggle; and kills it…

I stopped drinking more than 17 years ago. I can honestly say I haven’t had to “fight an urge” to drink in the past 16 of those years. This has freed my mind (and my time) to take on many new and rewarding challenges. -My life is a thousand times richer as a result.

My hope is that you too can take something of value from my experience, my methods, and my views pertaining to drugs and alcohol. My objective isn’t to convince you to stop; rather it’s to provide you another perspective should you decide you want to.
Stop Drinking free - Non AA - Non 12 step - Home

Last edited by doorknob; 03-15-2009 at 12:30 AM.
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Old 03-15-2009, 12:51 AM
  # 105 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by gerryP View Post
There's nothing to do in Phoenix, the largest state capitol by population in the U.S??
Sounds like a lot of people doing a whole lot of nothing then.

Is there any end to your excuses Katie...
Greetings from Phoenix. Come on down, see what there is to do. I suggest you bring your golf clubs. Great for that. Otherwise...

I am not into hiking and having to look for rocks, lest I strain my ankle. Like I said, I don't know if you've ever been here, but if not, you're in no position to be judging me.

BTW, this city is the fifth largest in the country. It's all about zoning.
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Old 03-15-2009, 01:02 AM
  # 106 (permalink)  
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You know what all? I came back from rehab, as I realized I was not going to get anything from being there. Heck, I could teach the class. That is what 32 years of being in this whole deal will teach you. As it stands, they charged me $5K for being there for 3.5 days. OMG. And these 12 step places want to help people getting well? I am going to fight the charge. These places are a racket. I am just glad I didn't spend more.
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Old 03-15-2009, 01:39 AM
  # 107 (permalink)  
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ETA: Must have passed by my editing time....

Futhermore, gerryP, I take offense at your implication that I am making excuses. For the record, there are several people filing lawsuits against this particular rehab. I so get sick of people saying this, that I am making excuses.

Sincerely,

Katie
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Old 03-15-2009, 02:00 AM
  # 108 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by LosingmyMisery View Post
I apologize if I misinterpreted this post, but this came from a thread titled "Second guessing my choice of rehab facility". I thought matters were clearly defined in your words above, Katie. Now, you claim knowing nothing about it including 12 step recovery. I find that confusing if not denial. You had a choice between the two and the place that included 12 step was chosen. I guess only you know why it was chosen and as to why you act surprised and deceived.

Now I would like to talk about enabling. Enabling will never help anyone. It will only help keep someone in their illness. It may even help lead them straight to their grave. Others can perceive it as nasty, I perceive it as quite the opposite. Sometimes it takes some recovery time to be able to interpret between enabling and real life experience. I know all about deceit and denial. The two combined with alcoholism are deadly. Not being able to recognize things for what they truly are, I chalk up to inexperience or ignorance.

Now, I know that people tend to not like the word ignorance. I know I didn't until I grew to understand the meaning of it. It isn't meant to be insulting. It simply means not knowing any better or having the experience to being informed, being unaware. You can't know what you don't know. There comes a time when we have to quit blaming everyone else, or in the case, every treatment center that you've encountered as being at fault and take a good look to see how you have contributed or haven't. There in may lie the problem or the solution. It is truly up to you, Katie. You hold the key. You always have, but it appears you keep sabotaging your efforts, which is very common. Try to break away from that.

My intentions are to help only, not hound or give you a hard time. As always, I wish you nothing but the best and success. At the rate you are going, I recognize the behavior of alcoholism that will keep you in your disease. Yes, my wish is to break through the denial and get you into a place of a new way of thinking. That is the only way you can get past this. History will continue to repeat itself if you keep making the same efforts. Time to break out of your comfort zone and try, try, again. However, you have to find some willingness. Problems seemed to arise the moment you arrived to treatment. Tolerance, patience and an open mind work wonders in situations where you feel uncomfortable in your environment. Good luck.
The rehab told me 10 - 15 % was AA. OK. I wish I could share the schedule with you, but it far exceeds 10 -15%. Additionally, I took pics of the place where I was and, in contrast to the brochure, it's nothing like where I was and I am prepared to fight a legal battle based on misrepresentation. They even got the city wrong - I'll fly to CA if I have to in order to appear in court. I hate people ripping me off. It's the principle of the matter. My friend might be willing to give depositions and appear in count or serve as a proxy. I realize the venue is in that city, so it is going to be tricky.

My friend said he wouldn't stay there overnight. His wife said it was depressing. Sorry, but I won't pay $433 a day for worthless treatment, but I do appreciate your post. BTW, not in denial here. I know I only have a few years left if I don't get it together. I just don't use labels. Thank you for your post.

ETA: I went to my first AA meeting in 1977. My friend went to his first meeting in 1961. His advice to me is to not forget the Big Book, but to forget the machine that AA has become.

Last edited by Katie09; 03-15-2009 at 02:16 AM.
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Old 03-15-2009, 11:17 AM
  # 109 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Alera View Post
Please let's not continue to demean a member. I hope by now we know better than that. If I accidentally (and I have) hit a single button by accident, I let it go. No need to mention it on the forums.

So again, I'm reposting #4
Had I know to leave it alone...now I know. Thank you Alera for pointing that out. My intention was not flame another member and as it turned out I did...please accept my apologies GerryP.
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Old 03-15-2009, 11:18 AM
  # 110 (permalink)  
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Okay, Katie, sue if you wish. That is your choice. I know you feel as if you were misinformed, but it all falls down to buyer beware. Your own words above state that you knew this was a 12 step program. I guess if you want to break it down into percentages, that may help your case, but it does appear that you wanted to control how much 12 step you would attend. Not saying there is anything wrong with that, but to me it seems counterproductive as to why you are there. Your choice, but for the record, just because you don't want to participate in the program does not make it worthless. 12 step programs have helped many get and stay sober. If it isn't for you, find something that is. No need to knock it.

You made up your mind that you were not going to participate. Again, your choice, but if you would have participated someway, somehow, you may have gotten something out of it. As I posted before, find something that has no affiliation with AA. Then try again. The proof is in the pudding.

I hope you prove those who claim excuses wrong and show that you are committed to recovery and leaving isn't just another excuse in not doing the work. What's done is done and you will handle the situation as you see fit, but the rehab isn't totally at fault, you were a part of it, or not. Making this a big issue isn't helping you get sober. I say take it for what it is worth and move forward.

Out of curiosity, you keep mentioning that you could teach the class?? Counseling, AA? I'm not sure what class you are referring to? You keep mentioning 32 years of being in the whole deal. If this were true, why don't you practice what you know? If you are so well informed with the tools, why don't you apply them? Honestly, not trying to be confrontational, just curious as to why you don't help yourself if you have all of the information? What you say and what you do seem to contradict one another.

That isn't to say that I don't understand this because I do. I understand the alcoholic behavior, but when I was drinking, I had zero tools to apply to stop drinking. Just something to think about. Try to refocus. Turning this into a legal issue may distract from the fact that this didn't work out for you, but turn it around and find a new alternative. I hate to see it end here, with a lawsuit. I can only imagine what that would do to your state of mind. You don't need the added stress and frustration. Refocus and try again....

I have read and reread my words editing them in hopes as not coming across as nagging or confrontational. My point is: it is important that we are honest and accountable for what we do, or don't do, in any situation. It is easy to blame others or situations as to why things didn't work out as intended. If we don't become accountable, we will never get well. It is a pivotal lesson to be learned.

I also will not blow smoke in one's direction or sugar coat situations because enabling does not help anyone, but keeps them in their disease. Trying to find balance between the two can be tricky and people may or may not agree, but I think most of us mean well in trying to help and can still remain compassionate while being totally honest. I say this only because I have also lived it first hand. In sharing my experience and reading about yours, I am reminded that sobriety is not a given and there are no guarantees. Sobriety is contingent on choices and a daily practice of a program of our choice.

As always, I wish you the best in your recovery journey.

ETA: I see where you posted about you and your friend's first AA meeting. How does that really matter, Katie? This isn't about your friend, this is about you. Of course your friend wouldn't want to stay there. He is an active alcoholic. As for his wife, it would be depressing to her because she is reminded that she is married to an active alcoholic. There opinion really shouldn't matter about your recovery. Then there is the issue that your friend picked this horrific place for you? Can you not see the insanity here?

I agree, AA isn't working for you. By all means, please find another program and get sober. Maybe all of the animosity against AA gives you some focus to direct anger at, but it isn't helping you get sober. Please, move forward and quit trying to convince all of us that AA isn't for you. I don't wish to argue AA with you, but would like to discuss what other programs do you have in mind?
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Old 03-15-2009, 11:50 AM
  # 111 (permalink)  
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Katie, just don't drink anymore. Then start facing those anxiety and phobia issues head on. You know that alcohol just makes them worse. I've had good results working with a social worker who could help me with all of my issues; addiction, mental, practical, living, etc..
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Old 03-15-2009, 12:43 PM
  # 112 (permalink)  
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Hi Katie
AA is not so bad, there really are nice people in the rooms. When I went into rehab at first there was no mention of AA but after detoxing and attending the group sessions, etc., they suggested that when I leave the center that I attend AA. I took their suggestion because I was sick and tired of being sick & tired. Every one of us has had to hit our bottom and then and only then were we willing to admit we were powerless and come into and welcome AA. Thank you for your honesty and I will pray for you.
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Old 03-15-2009, 12:53 PM
  # 113 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Believe808 View Post
AA is not so bad, there really are nice people in the rooms. When I went into rehab at first there was no mention of AA but after detoxing and attending the group sessions, etc., they suggested that when I leave the center that I attend AA. I took their suggestion because I was sick and tired of being sick & tired. Every one of us has had to hit our bottom and then and only then were we willing to admit we were powerless and come into and welcome AA. Thank you for your honesty and I will pray for you.
AA is not for everyone, regardless of depth of bottom reached. Welcome to the secular forum.
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Old 03-15-2009, 01:29 PM
  # 114 (permalink)  
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Bottom is an AA word... I mean, in that context. LOL I'm sure someone has said this before but this is exactly what turns people off from AA. They (not everyone) impose concepts of their recovery on you by scaring you with this terminology, maybe not intentionally but it happens. I'm not saying that people don't have a bottom, but people can fix their problems before something terrible happens. To suggest otherwise is, in essense, manipulating the person into believing Step #1. Its also a convenient way to dismiss the results of the program: "You didn't hit your bottom, thats why you relapsed/cant get sober."
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Old 03-15-2009, 01:45 PM
  # 115 (permalink)  
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Katie,

How are you feeling? Do you plan on looking for another facility or staying sober and working on your anxiety based issues?

I am glad you and your fur family made it home safe. It really sucks the facility didn't work out. Sometimes I have found I have to use whatever I can to accomplish a task or goal in front of me and if that means running on pure anger to do it then use it. Use that anger to stay sober until the underlying issues are dealt with. If you feel like drinking just say to yourself (for now) I am not going to prove them right and drink. When you get more sober time behind you it will change and you can focus on not drinking because of the positive things it brings you.

I don't know if you have done this but remove all of the alcohol from your house so it puts an obstacle in place and time to think before you get another drink.
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Old 03-15-2009, 02:31 PM
  # 116 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Sara9009 View Post
I don't know if you have done this but remove all of the alcohol from your house so it puts an obstacle in place and time to think before you get another drink.
Excellent suggestion!
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Old 03-15-2009, 02:42 PM
  # 117 (permalink)  
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katie!!!! i live in globe, az, lol! not much to do here, everyone goes to the valley for fun? cept me? i do not drive well in that traffic!

wishing you love, peace and sobreity!
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Old 03-15-2009, 02:49 PM
  # 118 (permalink)  
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Jow, how far away from each other are you two?
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Old 03-15-2009, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by jowinbo View Post
katie!!!! i live in globe, az, lol! not much to do here, everyone goes to the valley for fun? cept me? i do not drive well in that traffic!

wishing you love, peace and sobreity!
Hi dear jowinbo, I live in Scottsdale and have no idea how far Globe is away from me. I don't think there is much to do here, although I do love my surroundings. Anyway, the traffic truly is miserable here, only second to LA or other large metro areas!
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Old 03-15-2009, 03:55 PM
  # 120 (permalink)  
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katie and dk.....i think it is an hour drive to mesa, so not too far, just around the freeway from katie!
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