LosingmyMisery

Me too, Stone. Pretty nuts, but I hear there may still be hope.

doorknob

I don't think I'll ever understand how people can accept and adopt the dogma of AA and be unable to see anything outside of it. I hear a lot of people speak about being desperate enough. For me, I don't think it would make any difference, even if I were on my death bed...

LosingmyMisery

Never say never. I was one of those desperate people. Really didn't like meetings and the program, but really didn't like the idea of dying either. I know what you are saying, though, Paul.

I really didn't think it would work for me, but I surprised myself. It is amazing what can happen if you really apply yourself. I thought I would just skate through, but that didn't work. I really had to fully commit, even though I didn't like much of what I was hearing or what I had to do. I really wanted to change, had to.

Then I went into another phase of the process. Things actually started making sense. The recovery part made sense, but much of how people behaved didn't. I know your beliefs cause a big hurdle for you, but is sounds like you are finding away around that. I say whatever works, go for it.

I used to think there was only one way. Again, that was the only way I knew that worked for me. Now, I know sobriety can work outside of the program as well. But I have to say to be fair to the program, I still apply much of what I learned in AA in my daily life. It must be that when you are ready, really ready, you will find sobriety one way or another. If not, nothing will work.

doorknob

It's just always felt too wrong. I've tried to overlook things for the benefit of peer support, but it's just not me. I don't belong there. I couldn't adopt the 12 Step perspective anymore than I could become a Christian or a Muslim. I've had to apply myself, but to things I believe in. And I had to accept that I wasn't going to have any real f2f support system any time soon.

LosingmyMisery

Fair enough, Paul. I know that you have struggled with AA for a long time. No one can accuse you of not trying. There is nothing wrong with deciding the program isn't for you. You came to the conclusion and sought other programs to help. You are even blazing new trails. In doing so, you may be opening the door for many people to find help and recovery they never would have found otherwise. You are putting your energy in finding a different solution instead of giving up. I think that is terrific.

coffeenut

I remember hearing the term dry drunk when I first came on these boards...then, when I found out what it meant I was so mad!

How dare anyone claim their sobriety is more valuable than anyone elses by virtue of a meeting.

yeahgr8

It's not an AA term, it has just been coined by folks at AA. A dry drunk, i heard this over 2 decades ago and no-one in my family and earlier friends ever went to AA. It means a person who has simply just stopped drinking without making any other lifestyle or thought changes. The person is almost, in effect, forcing themselves to abstein without really having the real desire to do so themselves, a newer term for me is white knuckling. My father was a dry drunk and it is a very apt label.

Zencat

Labels are convenient tho. One doesn't have to look deeply for understand in order to prejudge someone.

Ananda

actually i think labels are absolutely necessary or we would all go insane. i mean all words are labels try to talk without using the label female or male or the label blond or brunette....those are simplistic ones but they work for understanding it.

The human mind can deal with sooooo much data from our environment and part of how it does this effectively is by some amount of pre-judgementl, classification and labeling...the problem isn't for me that i put people and things in boxes to sort the mess...it's when i won't let them out of the boxes or resort them as i go along

how words and labels come to mean things within a particular group of people is very interesting to me...converstaions have a history that if you are unaware of will often make the communication you walk in on make no sense.

Thats why I try real hard to listen beyond the words, labels etc. that people use to hear what they are saying. I don't do well atthe intelctual word smithing that many seem to have a great handle on.....but i think i do pretty well at hearing beyond the words.....hope you all have patients with my lack of word skill Not sure this is the right place to post this, but some how labels and things like the term "dry drunk" makes me think of this stuff...I have used the term "dry drunk" in a variety of ways over the years...I tend to avoid using it anymore as it has developed into a word that has huge conotations and emotional content....and basically tends to harm conversations rather than help to communicate.

thanks

allport

One fun thing I heard (on QI) try and define the words left and right.

Try it , its fun!

Zencat

Well I don't take the time to clarify my thoughts...I will remember to do better .

Labels that are used to identify others in such a way that devalues their worth of person is the case, IMO, for 'dry drunk'. Its a term, again IMO, that strikes an image in my head of someone who has been evaluated by their peers and have been found to be of little value as a person. My experience with being labeled in a punishing judgmental way is dejecting. It sucks when my worth as a human being has been preassigned and used to identify me as damaged goods among my peers. That kind of label, the one that gets spread around among my peers hurts. The snickering, the insults, the blatant cruelty...it hurts. That's what I'm talking about.

Preconceived notions are the locks on the door to wisdom.
~Merry Browne

Fubarcdn

The more I think about this the more I feel sorry for the person that is doing the name calling and to the others that are buying into it. It is rather obvious to me that this person has severe insecurity problems and needs to work whatever program he/she is working to correct the more that person may be the very thing he is saying about someone else.