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Anything goes secular spirituality thread

Old 02-11-2009, 10:03 AM
  # 61 (permalink)  
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wow.

Assuming the definition of the word 'spirituality' is being this version...

matters relating to-
humankind's worth, meaning of exsistence
relationship to other life/matter,
relationship to things outside of the realm of the senses (time, space infinity, etc.)

I'm thinking that spirituality is a belief system of how humans choose to deal with the conscious thought of these matters, how to put a material sense on what they cannot see, feel, hear, or touch. To connect with the "un-connectable", and to use this connection to form a method of relation to meaning, other beings, and things undetectable.

All of us have a belief system....I think this is our spirituality by definition.

Some say its God, or a god/s, or rationalism, or philosophy....most thinking theirs more valid than another for differing reasons.

Much to discuss, love the thread....

I'm an irrational christian by the way.

Thanks for letting me share folks.

This has been a short public service annoucement of my 2 cents....
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Old 02-11-2009, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by spark42 View Post

It doesn't mean it's completely all you, or you're doing it alone, because part of what informs and guides your conscience is the wisdom of everyone you've ever known, everything you've read or learned, etc etc.
I work SMART and have found this statement to be a very good example of my higher power. Although religious, my recovery isn't dependent on God but on what I can do and change. I use the tools I've learned in REBT, as well as all the wisdom and life examples from those around me.

Great post Spark. It really got me thinking.
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Old 02-11-2009, 12:14 PM
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Science, being based on evidence and reason, isn't a belief system... A rational empirical approach to something isn't a belief system.
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Old 02-11-2009, 12:21 PM
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Sparkey..trying to understand here....if you believe in certain things does it matter if they are right wrong provable or unprovable

Isn't it still what you believe and therefore a belief system?

Isn't evolution (a theory) or relativity .... a belief system no matter how rational it is?

Look up believe sysstem on wickapedia for me...I'm suppose to be working
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Old 02-11-2009, 12:47 PM
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Well... Let's say "fire is hot" - do you believe it? Is it a belief?
Is dna or gravity a belief?
Do you "believe" that 2 plus 2 equals 4?

I suppose we could end up debating semantics but what i mean is that evidence and reason are not belief systems in the sense that religions are.
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Old 02-11-2009, 01:13 PM
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Just the facts ma'am, just the facts!
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Old 02-11-2009, 03:13 PM
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Spark42, your comment however well taken, is not what I refer to in the post on spirituality being a belief system, that is what the thread is about, spirituality. In taking the recognized definition of that word we can, and must, surmize using reason, that spirituality is just that....a belief system.

All of us relate to things we cannot measure with our senses, things we cannot feel, touch, hear, see, smell...etc. the way humans deal with those things is their spirituality.

I never said hard science is spirituality. But one can use reason as their mode of spirituality...again by the referred to definition.

I am not making a religious argument here...that is something that I will not bring to a secular thread...my statement was one of definition and accepted implication by reason.

peace all
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Old 02-11-2009, 03:14 PM
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masseyman, You've inspired a question: Does the mere fact that one calls themselves irrational negate the statement?
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Old 02-11-2009, 03:24 PM
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joined in time....if you are referring to my "I'm an irrational christian.." statement....it was obviously meant as sarcasm....a slim attempt at a somewhat biggoted statement made by a false third party for the sake of humor...

I think I get what you mean....

I didn't want this thread to be about me or the way I see things...I just love conversation with folks of other mindsets...I have all my adult life liked to talk about reason and science and philosophy with others who differ from me...and I like to throw in some feeble attempts at humor too.
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Old 02-12-2009, 12:10 AM
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My spirituality, if you would call it that, isn't really defined. It's more of a feeling and a way of living of good over wrong. I don't believe in absolutes, and I strongly believe in karma and intuition. I also believe in the power of positive thinking, it is just a little harder for some to think more positively than others.
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Old 02-13-2009, 11:18 PM
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masseyman, yep I got the humor
my line was half failed attempt at humor, half odd 2 bit philosophical question

I like this thread, it kinda swerves around but stays on the road
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Old 02-14-2009, 12:36 AM
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The way I look at it.. we all have some kind of belief system and we're all irrational to some extent.. Its not like we wake up and think, I'm ONLY going to believe whats been proven and/or do whats rational today and ignore everything else.

Religion is only one type of belief system. I'm a socialist. Can I PROVE that socialism is better than the alternative? No one can! But I still believe in socialism because I have faith that my reasons are right... There are millions of examples in our lives like that. Tastes, politics, etc.

Science is limited by the problems it proposes.. so to me its valuable but I can't rely on it for everything.. Plus, we have to have faith that those people who r doing the science r doing it right and ethically. For example, at one time we believed vioxx to be a safe medicine because science told us so. When science told us it was dangerous it got off the market. lol
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Old 02-14-2009, 04:11 AM
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thnX!

Yeah see.... I believe in quatum physics and evolution and lots of science even though i really don't understand every detail of them. I believe it is rational, but I don't always get the details fully. And of course at some pooint some of those things may very well be proven wrong, in which case I'll be fine and will simply go on....Is pluto no longer a planet by the way????

If I had to "prove" to myself everything that I use I would be still trying to understand physics and I would be stuck and never get beyond the basics. So there is a certain amount of "faith" and "belief" involved in negotiating daily life.
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Old 02-14-2009, 04:44 AM
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It's a dwarf planet now apparently Nands...there's a Tolkien joke in there somewhere.

D
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Old 02-16-2009, 02:44 PM
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Just some thoughts from DailyOM...enjoy :ghug2

February 12, 2009
Life’s Scales
Balance

Like pieces of a puzzle, the many different aspects of your being come together to form the person that you are. You work and play, rest and expend energy, commune with your body and soul, exalt in joy, and feel sorrow. Balance is the state that you achieve when all of the aspects of your life and self are in harmony. Your life force flows in a state of equilibrium because nothing feels out of sync. While balance is necessary to have a satisfying, energetic, and joyful life, only you can determine what balance means to you.

Achieving balance requires that you assess what is important to you. The many demands of modern life can push us to make choices that can put us off balance and have a detrimental effect on our habits, relationships, health, and career. In creating a balanced lifestyle, you must ascertain how much time and energy you are willing to devote to the different areas of your life. To do so, imagine that your life is a house made up of many rooms. Draw this house, give each part of your life its own room, and size each room according to the amount of importance you assign to that aspect of your life. You can include family, solitude, activities that benefit others, healthy eating, indulgences, exercise and working on self. You may discover that certain elements of your life take up an inordinate amount of time, energy, or effort and leave you with few resources to nurture the other aspects of your life. You may want to spend less time on these activities and more on the ones that! fulfill you.

A balanced lifestyle is simply a state of being in which one has time and energy for obligations and pleasures, as well as time to live well and in a gratifying way. With its many nuances, balance can be a difficult concept to integrate into your life. Living a balanced existence, however, can help you attain a greater sense of happiness, health, and fulfillment.
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Old 02-17-2009, 08:25 AM
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Is my disbelief of a proposition a belief system in its self? LOL...NO! If I disbelieve some kind of a claim by others, it doesn't mean I have taken up the opposite stance of the claim with some other belief. I merely think the statement or proposition may not be credible or worthy of any deeper exploration.

However I do believe that Lucky Charms are magically delicious.

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Old 02-17-2009, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by zencat View Post
Is my disbelief of a proposition a belief system in its self? LOL...NO! If I disbelieve some kind of a claim by others, it doesn't mean I have taken up the opposite stance of the claim with some other belief. I merely think the statement or proposition may not be credible or worthy of any deeper exploration.

However I do believe that Lucky Charms are magically delicious.

Another satisfied customer of sugary cereals fortified with 8 essential vitamins and minerals.

THE PLANET IS OURS, LUCKY !!
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Old 03-18-2009, 05:42 AM
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Originally Posted by masseyman View Post
Spark42, your comment however well taken, is not what I refer to in the post on spirituality being a belief system, that is what the thread is about, spirituality. In taking the recognized definition of that word we can, and must, surmize using reason, that spirituality is just that....a belief system.

All of us relate to things we cannot measure with our senses, things we cannot feel, touch, hear, see, smell...etc. the way humans deal with those things is their spirituality.

I never said hard science is spirituality. But one can use reason as their mode of spirituality...again by the referred to definition.

I am not making a religious argument here...that is something that I will not bring to a secular thread...my statement was one of definition and accepted implication by reason.

peace all
what i was responding to was your comment about "rationalism" being a belief system, along with religion.

Evidence and reason are what mark some beliefs out as being more valid.

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Old 03-18-2009, 06:00 AM
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Welcome back Spark where have you been?
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Old 03-18-2009, 06:19 AM
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hey allport - thanks! It's good to be back catching up!

I've had a very hectic month or so with electrician exams - practicals... So not had much spare time, had my head buried in regs books and my toolbox!

Good to be back - have missed you all and this place.

:ghug
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