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Anything goes secular spirituality thread

Old 07-02-2009, 05:53 AM
  # 261 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by californiapoppy View Post
So the article in the constitution that gives freedom of religion somehow doesn't hold all the promise it should.
I have to disagree. I think that freedom of religion only works if it applied to every american, and our president for better or for worse if entitled to those same rights. One positive aspect of having a president who believes in Judeo-Christian religious doctrine is that theoretically it means they believe in he!!, which should at least somewhat temper their actions...(which means that our recently deposed leader must have been a closet athiest )
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Old 07-02-2009, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Daisy09 View Post
I have to disagree. I think that freedom of religion only works if it applied to every american, and our president for better or for worse if entitled to those same rights. One positive aspect of having a president who believes in Judeo-Christian religious doctrine is that theoretically it means they believe in he!!, which should at least somewhat temper their actions...(which means that our recently deposed leader must have been a closet athiest )
My meaning is misconstrued, I meant the government, not the people running it. I just don't think there should be "In God we trust" written on money, nor swearing on a bible, koran or whatever, which probably means absolutely nothing to an atheist. Somehow if we see reference to god on official practices or documents I believe that we are being influenced, just not so free...
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Old 07-07-2009, 09:44 PM
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I heard parts of a radio program today on public radio that was really interesting and very much pertained to things talked about on this thread. If any of you are bored around the house you should stream it. I guess it is a two part series on faith. Here is the summary from the KQED website:

Faith
In an increasingly secular age, what does it mean to have faith? And what is the relationship between science and spirituality? In the first installment of our two-part series on faith, we discuss these questions and more.

Faith: Forum | KQED Public Media for Northern CA

I am not sure when the second part in the series is.
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Old 07-07-2009, 10:47 PM
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This is another thing I recently read in a book about substance abuse but was extracted from the writings of Ken Wilber. I think it would be interesting for this thread:

Exoteric or 'outer' religion is mythic religion, religion that is terribly concrete and literal, that really believes, for example, that Moses parted the Red Sea, that Christ was born from a virgin, that the world was created in six days, that manna once literally rained down from heaven, and so on. Exoteric religions the world over consist of those types of beliefs. The Hindus believe that the earth, since it needs to be supported, is sitting on an elephant which since it needs to be supported, is sitting on a
tortoise which in turn is sitting on a serpent... Lao Tzu was nine hundred years old when he was born, Krishna made love to four thousand cow maidens, Brahma was born from a crack in a cosmic egg, and so on. That's exoteric religion, a series of belief structures that attempt to explain the mysteries of the world in mythic terms rather than direct experiential or evidential terms... Esoteric spirituality, on the other hand, is 'inner or hidden.' the reason that esoteric...is hidden is not that it is secret or anything, but that it is a matter of direct personal experience or personal awareness. Esoteric (spirituality) asks that you believe nothing on faith, or obediently swallow any dogma. Rather, esoteric (spirituality) is a set of personal experiments that you conduct scientifically in the laboratory of your own awareness. Like all good science, it is based on direct experience, not mere belief or wish, and it is publicly checked or validated by a peer group of those who have also performed the experiment.
I don't know if I completely agree with everything that he says but I thought it might add to the conversation.
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Old 07-07-2009, 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Lenina View Post
This is interesting. I am in the middle of rereading Huxley's "Brave New World, Revisited." I highly recommend it. I'm finding it even more relevant now than I did 40 years ago in high school. Huxley and George Orwell were so ahead of their times!
I just finished reading The Penultimate Truth by Philip K. Dick. Very much in the same vein; I recommend it to you.
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Old 07-07-2009, 11:56 PM
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Philip K. Dick knocks me out! So does Harlan Ellison. I think there's some really interesting points of view. What will the future hold for our ideas of religion and politics? Or law and medicine? Do we, as a society learn from our collective pasts?

Interesting times, my friends! Thanks for the opinions!

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Old 07-08-2009, 12:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Lenina View Post
Philip K. Dick knocks me out! So does Harlan Ellison. I think there's some really interesting points of view. What will the future hold for our ideas of religion and politics? Or law and medicine? Do we, as a society learn from our collective pasts?
That's what makes science fiction the greatest genre ever! It's prescient philosophy.
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Old 07-08-2009, 12:18 AM
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spittake,

Absolutely! Nice term for it.

I have a question, if it's not out of line here. Why do so many people not vote or vote against their own interests?

Yeah, I'm a commie. I just believe that in this day and age no one should be hungry or not have a job. I think it's important for people to work as they can. And medical care should be available to all.

I believe that when religion and politics get involved, the "little" guy loses.

Love,

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Old 07-10-2009, 02:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Lenina View Post
I have a question, if it's not out of line here. Why do so many people not vote or vote against their own interests?
The first group feels political concerns aren't pressing or that they don't directly affect their lives; some have just given up. I had a friend who never voted because he felt the system was rigged for someone else's benefit and he made no difference anyhow. Every tale I hear about the lobbying industry in America makes me think he had a point.

The second group doesn't realize just how badly their interests are being exploited against them.

Originally Posted by Lenina
Yeah, I'm a commie. I just believe that in this day and age no one should be hungry or not have a job. I think it's important for people to work as they can. And medical care should be available to all.
I once considered myself a Marxist. Now, I call myself postcapitalist. That's my made-up term for a person who recognizes that there is no such thing as a free market.

It's like a perpetual motion machine. In your dreams.
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Old 07-10-2009, 06:53 PM
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@ spit
post-capitalist...That's my made-up term for a person who recognizes that there is no such thing as a free market.

Nice.

Reminds me of old man Greenspan stuttering before a Senate committee when asked why the economy was failing. "Well...uh...things didnt work the way we thought they would.."

You mean the power elite aren't working in the interest of society? People are actually profiteering and saving their own arses? Doh!

Capitalism is like a steam bubble that keeps expanding and fizzling (recession), ad infinitum.

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Old 08-12-2009, 02:42 AM
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Albert Einstine once picked apart a human brain and could not find the place where thoughts come from and said ,that must be GOD.
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Old 08-12-2009, 08:40 AM
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Wow. If God gave me all these thoughts in my head... well, he's not really someone I'm interested in worshiping.

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Old 08-12-2009, 03:20 PM
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When in doubt........

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Old 08-20-2009, 07:04 AM
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One reason I have for having doubt about the "christian" faith is that so many 'christians' are like my old fundamentalist grandma whose beliefs were thus: when someone sins, you forgive them but you love them a little less to remind them that they're a sinner. That goes against all the so-called 'christian' teachings. There are a few people on this site who practice christianity the way my old grandma practiced it.

That sh!t turns me off to christianity faster than anything. I am currently doing the AA steps and am now on step seven "humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings" but am having a hard time with it cause I'm not even sure He exists, much less cares about me. It's a constant battle in my head: wanting to believe in a loving God and doubting that He cares about me at all.

Reminds me of a prayer I heard long ago: "Oh God, if there is a God, save my soul, if I have a soul". That pretty much sums it up for me...
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Old 08-20-2009, 07:24 AM
  # 275 (permalink)  
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(((least)))

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Old 08-20-2009, 07:39 AM
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I don't know if this helps, least, but here's an update on my thoughts:

Back-story first:

-Believed in God and Jesus
-Doubted and questioned
-Became agnostic
-Became an atheist as soon as I was no longer angry at God. That's when I knew I didn't believe anymore.

All of that happened within a very short period of time...less than 2 years....and my journey began about 10 years ago.

During the last 8 years there has been a void...I felt something was missing. All of that time I still didn't believe in anything and I was content with that...yet I wasn't at peace with myself.

Over the past few months that has changed. I'm still an atheist, but I realized that everything I care about and what's important to me is right in front of me. It seems simple, but I just couldn't get it before. I feel a connection to the people who count. I do not have any mystical feelings about it...I'm just feeling the bond that naturally happens between humans.

I stick close to the people who make me feel good and love me back. I avoid toxic people. I focus on things that make me happy. And I'm learning to love myself. I'm a good person and I deserve to live and I deserve all the happiness I can get.
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Old 08-20-2009, 07:50 AM
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I totally get what you mean Least, I have met a lot of people (not all Christians) who are perfectly happy to love and support you when you are doing things the way they think it should be done.

The trouble occurs if you have doubts and or disagreements with the right way, then the pity and the cold shoulder starts, I have pretended, in the past, to think the right way just to keep the approval coming, not anymore, I am done with pretending and I am done with that type of person.
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Old 08-20-2009, 09:06 AM
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It's just so hard to put up with that sh!t from people who really think they are the salvation of the world, so to speak. One of them is on this site and I'd love to send her a pm telling her of her sanctimonious attitude and how much it does'nt help me... but I'm not going to send it as I don't believe she'd "hear" my message. so I'll just stay away from her and hope she just goes away...

I'm really depressed today cause tomorrow is my f!cking birthday and i've never felt less like celebrating. 58 years wasted, what's to celebrate? sorry to be such a downer but i have nowhere else to go. I'm completely alone here. And where is that god I've been brought up to believe in? I can't find him anywhere. is this all there is??
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Old 08-20-2009, 12:58 PM
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when my baby brother died i pretty much lost the very little religion i may have had.
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Old 08-20-2009, 02:58 PM
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When people tell me I'll go to hell if I'm an atheist, I say, "If God loves me enough, God will hear me out."
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