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Old 01-24-2009, 04:55 AM
  # 41 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by gneiss View Post
Wull... someone advised me yesterday on another thread in SC to pray about my dilemma and turn to my HP. I'm still not sure if he was serious or not. "Sorry, dude, wrong forum."



Easier said than done, but usually it's best to ignore it.

I look at it this way...anytime someone tells me that or something similar here at SR in any of the forums, I see it as coming from a person who does care to see me get better and who wants me to get through/past this addiction.

We have a common purpose to remain sober/clean. Some people's thoughts surrounding that are different...I know they mean well, and for some it's the only way they know how to mean well. I used to get upset by it (not just concerning sobriety), especially when I was a noob to agnosticism/atheism. The more time that passes, the easier it is to let things roll off.
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Old 01-24-2009, 05:11 AM
  # 42 (permalink)  
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Well said, Bam.
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Old 01-24-2009, 05:26 AM
  # 43 (permalink)  
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Rob B you are always welcome here and I hope I share your spirit of openess however anecdotal evidence can never be regarded as empirical, and that is what the bb is, anecdotal.

Im not saying those people didnt recover and that the aa program doesnt help people but it can in no way be proved.

Wanting something to be true doesnt make it so (that is as true for me as it is for you).

We will have to agree to disagree and get on with the important business of sobriety.

:ghug3
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Old 01-24-2009, 06:43 AM
  # 44 (permalink)  
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Ya know I don't think for a second that people who reject the aa philosophy are any less concerned for their fellow humans, quite the opposite in fact.

I find myself frustrated at times that the aa doctrine permeates into almost every thread...I think it is fine for people who utilize aa to share that with a newcomer BUT when members quote the bb in newcomer and the alcoholism forum I bristle. The bb is only one thought on the subject of alcoholism, one that I do not subscribe to.

I remember clearly sharing something an aa "old timer" once told me...."put your bb away and start living" almost immediately it was followed by a post stating that the "old timer" in question was going to kill "real alcoholics" with that advise. For me that advise was a life saver.

So many people leave aa...according to its own studies 95% by the end of the first year...don't these people deserve other more viable alternatives than the religious dogma the bb provides? aa since its inception has stated that they do not have the monopoly on recovery...people sharing why aa is not suitable for them is not ripping into aa it is sharing ES&H.
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Old 01-24-2009, 06:47 AM
  # 45 (permalink)  
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For me the theme of the thread is about not reacting to someone preaching at you and wanting to vent. It's about being considerate!

It says it all to me, people are free to believe in thor, baal, pink unicorns, celestial teapots, or flying spaghetti monsters, so long as they don't cause harm to others in the name of those beliefs.

I don't feel the need to convert religious people to atheism, so why do they feel the need to convert me?

A criticism of religion, religious belief, or a person's patronising or condescending attitude is not aa bashing. I understand religious people's defensiveness towards unbelievers, but it's important to understand what's going on there.

There's a good friend of mine in aa, we became good friends because we had loads in common. He recently "found god" and since then we can't have a conversation without it becoming about how i must find god. He reckons i have a resentment towards god - how can i have a resentment towards something that, as far as i'm concerned, doesn't exist?
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Old 01-24-2009, 07:27 AM
  # 46 (permalink)  
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Does anybody remember this from Seinfeld.
This is the kind of attitude I like from religious people.

Elaine;" Does it bother you that I am not religious?"
Puddy " It doesn't bother me at all. I am not the one going to hell."

Short and sweet translation. To each his own.
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Old 01-24-2009, 07:30 AM
  # 47 (permalink)  
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Fubar are you trying to beat the record for the most posts in a month lol, if so good luck, get moving only a few days to go.
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Old 01-24-2009, 07:34 AM
  # 48 (permalink)  
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No allport I am not trying to do anything but quit drinking and posting and reading so far is my therapy. I am retired and besides the gym I have very little to do to occupy my shrunken brain besides play online poker. That is my current story sad but true.
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Old 01-24-2009, 08:19 AM
  # 49 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Rob B View Post
I read this forum because there are things I learn here, alcoholism is a disease of separation, for too long I have taken an us VS. them stance, no longer, there are a few folks who post on this forum whose sobriety I respect, they are not wasting time ripping on AA, they show a genuine concern for their fellow humans, and a willingness to remain teachable as well as teachers, that's what I would like for myself.
Rob, I hope I fall into this category, alteast most of the time, even with my not quite 3 months of sobriety. I don't believe I rip on AA just for the sake of ripping on AA. What I do attempt, is to offer a counter viewpoint to some of the common dogma that has been so discouraging for me in my own battle with addiction. I also try to express what has hurt me, in an honest but evenhanded way.
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Old 01-24-2009, 09:20 AM
  # 50 (permalink)  
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fubar don't be touchy hun, I was just making a (very) small joke.

I've been enjoying your posts and hope you continue in the same vein.

Your life sounds a lot like mine except I'm too lazy to go to the gym!

We can all be sad together X
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Old 01-24-2009, 09:31 AM
  # 51 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by allport View Post
fubar don't be touchy hun, I was just making a (very) small joke.

I've been enjoying your posts and hope you continue in the same vein.

Your life sounds a lot like mine except I'm too lazy to go to the gym!

We can all be sad together X
Ya I know you were joking and I wasn't being touchy. I just wanted to explain myself in case others might be thinking I am posting too much. I don't want to make a pest of myself.
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Old 01-24-2009, 09:37 AM
  # 52 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by allport View Post
Fubar are you trying to beat the record for the most posts in a month lol,
No way he can beat me this past month.
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Old 01-24-2009, 09:38 AM
  # 53 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Fubarcdn View Post
in case others might be thinking I am posting too much

Aww, don't be silly!! That's what SR is for!

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Old 01-24-2009, 10:09 AM
  # 54 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Fubarcdn View Post
No allport I am not trying to do anything but quit drinking and posting and reading so far is my therapy. I am retired and besides the gym I have very little to do to occupy my shrunken brain besides play online poker. That is my current story sad but true.
(((((Fubarcdn)))) I like your posts.
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Old 01-25-2009, 01:09 PM
  # 55 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Eroica View Post
and its the responsibility of AAers to inform secularists that AA is a religious program. If they did there would be a LOT less confusion.
I agree. At the very least A.A'ers could forewarn others in general that their program is quasi-religion or is some sort of new wave religion.

According to Dr. Bob’s last major talk to A.A. members in Detroit in 1948. Pertinent among his remarks are these:
"But we were convinced that the answer to our problems was in the Good Book. To some of us older ones, the parts that we found absolutely essential were the Sermon on the Mount, the thirteenth chapter of First Corinthians, and the Book of James. . . .
It wasn’t until 1938 that the teachings and efforts and studies that had been going on were crystallized in the form of the Twelve Steps. I didn’t write the Twelve Steps. I had nothing to do with the writing of them. . . . We already had the basic ideas, though not in terse and tangible form. We got them, as I said, as the result of our study of the Good Book"
I feel open discussion based on personal observations and evidence need not include hostel personal views. Being considerate and respectable to another point of view helps to bring about a greater understanding and more open discussion of opposing views in a non-threatening way.
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Old 01-25-2009, 01:33 PM
  # 56 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Fubarcdn View Post

Elaine;" Does it bother you that I am not religious?"
Puddy " It doesn't bother me at all. I am not the one going to hell."
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Old 01-25-2009, 01:35 PM
  # 57 (permalink)  
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Roflmao!!
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Old 01-25-2009, 01:37 PM
  # 58 (permalink)  
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AA, it might be good it might be bad...but I have never known ANYTHING cause as many arguments!

PS
Bugs, aint you tired of the AA bashing yet? EVERYONE knows how you feel about AA so can't we just take it as read from now on?
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Old 01-25-2009, 04:09 PM
  # 59 (permalink)  
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Stone are you being controversial? lol

Im not an aa basher most of the time, I just don't care enough about it.

But if bugs wants to express his feeling about aa why not.

You wouldn't tell Carol (for instance) to stop banging on about aa all the time would you?

Or would you, I dare you !!!!
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Old 01-26-2009, 12:39 AM
  # 60 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by allport View Post
But if bugs wants to express his feeling about aa why not.
Yes, I was being naughty.

Bugs is a she and a friend...I do think since she has left AA she has made a lifes work out of bashing it.....and bashing is negative...I wish she would promote someting rather than criticise something. If you had been here as long as me you would see that she has been doing this for a LONG time now. Relentlessly.

So, I wouldn't tell Carol to stop promoting AA cos promoting is positive not negative.

Every now and then I criticsice Bugs for this but if she stopped I would miss it really. LOL

Love ya Bugsy! :ghug3
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