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What to do when there is no secular support in your town

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What to do when there is no secular support in your town

Old 01-22-2009, 05:13 PM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by bugsworth View Post
Katie...my advise to you is to stick to newcomers meetings...after I decided that the "program" of aa was not something I wishes to adopt, as I already have a religion, I stayed away from meetings that were bb studies. I found that newcomers meetings kept everything really green for me.

Your not alone and you never have to drink again.
Thanks, I've been to those too and don't like them. Invariably, they center around the steps and I don't want to do the steps. What I have found of value in AA has very little to do with the program, rather certain individuals I've met along the way who didn't preach the steps or sponsors. I do have one friend in AA who does sort of do this, but there are several other qualities about him I value, so I overlook it when he tells me to get a sponsor. I know he means well, but when I've mentioned LifeRing he has just sort of pooh poohed it. Oh well. He has found something that has worked for him. I know AA is his thing and I respect that, just like I respect anyone else's choice in this forum to go to AA.

I bet in 50 years LifeRing and SMART meetings will be all over the place. I hope. But that will be too late for me
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Old 01-22-2009, 05:27 PM
  # 22 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by spark42 View Post
Sorry - ran out of text space!

So there is this dependence upon a scared text which is considered perfect, unquestionable, unchangeable.

To me anything that wants to be static, unwilling to be progressive, is unnatural. Life is all about learning, about change, about growth, about evolution,

the tendency of some (i underline some) aa groups to rely on dogma and be unwilling to progress and evolve concerns me, it is pseudo-religious to me.

There's a tendency to religiously follow the big book, no room for questioning or doubt, no room for progression.

Technically anyone who strays from the big book isn't "proper" aa. But in my opinion, progression is a good thing.

However i gave up trying to change the things i can't - along with the drink! I just avoid those particular groups.

The serenity "prayer" (mantra?) is one that i find very apt - i just try to change the things i can, and aim for the wisdom to tell one from the other!

Bit of a waffle but hope it makes some kind of sense!
Makes sense and I agree. The last time I picked up a BB - wasn't there still that chapter to the wives? I mean, as a woman, I find this very upsetting. I cannot quite describe it, but it's like women are not supposed to have this problem, which just adds a layer of MORE shame (for me) to having this problem.

Ah well, I should shut up now, but this is what happens when a person attends their first meeting at 17 and 32 years later is frustrated things still have not advanced barely in the whole field of addiction medicine and the "cure" for the "disease" is of a spiritual nature.
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Old 01-22-2009, 05:32 PM
  # 23 (permalink)  
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Katie...Certainly no one here at SR will EVER accusing me of pushing aa...lol I have serious reservations about the program most of which I don't share openly.

The reality is that aa or a belief in a deity is not what keeps us sober and better to utilize things that work for you rather than challenge you.
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Old 01-22-2009, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by bugsworth View Post
Katie...Certainly no one here at SR will EVER accusing me of pushing aa...lol I have serious reservations about the program most of which I don't share openly.

The reality is that aa or a belief in a deity is not what keeps us sober and better to utilize things that work for you rather than challenge you.
Thank you Right now SR is working. Went to the store, bought some ginger ale, almost some ice cream, and dingo bones for my pups. One thing that makes me smile at this point is seeing my two adorable shih tzu puppies wag their tails when I give them their bones. I guess that works for me today.
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Old 01-22-2009, 05:52 PM
  # 25 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Katie09 View Post
Makes sense and I agree. The last time I picked up a BB - wasn't there still that chapter to the wives? I mean, as a woman, I find this very upsetting. I cannot quite describe it, but it's like women are not supposed to have this problem, which just adds a layer of MORE shame (for me) to having this problem.

Ah well, I should shut up now, but this is what happens when a person attends their first meeting at 17 and 32 years later is frustrated things still have not advanced barely in the whole field of addiction medicine and the "cure" for the "disease" is of a spiritual nature.
exactly - i don't expect something inherently static to progress, however i think within aa there is cause for progress.

Each group is autonomous - so some groups end up moving forward, and becoming more progressive.

That actually brings me full circle, because now i get why doorknob has an atheist aa meeting! I just now want to visit him and check it out!
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Old 01-22-2009, 05:52 PM
  # 26 (permalink)  
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The best thing is that the chapter from the wives was written by bill himself, couldnt trust the little woman with a pen.

Patronising git.
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Old 01-22-2009, 06:01 PM
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Sorry - text space again (damn this ps3 browser!)

so i kinda think just check out as many aa meetings as possible - they're usually the only game in town - and find progressive ones you're comfortable in.

Don't worry about the hardcore aa'ers telling you you're avoiding the program, or not doing it properly - find your own path!

But for me, this place is unique - fellow recovering drunks who are sober, but who don't and won't accept the concept of god (in any meaningful sense) but who can chat and support eachother - it's wicked (pun intended)

it makes all the difference knowing you're not alone - and us atheist aa attenders are definitely a minority!

Stay free and keep thinking! It's a god (heh! ) given gift!
/irony
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Old 01-22-2009, 06:09 PM
  # 28 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by allport View Post
The best thing is that the chapter from the wives was written by bill himself, couldnt trust the little woman with a pen.

Patronising git.
i try to be careful of criticism of aa but the bb is an incredibly patronising piece of work in places... I know it's best to listen to the good stuff and ignore the... erm... unhelpful... bits but "agnostics", and "wives", are very patronising - reveals it's a book of it's time, not a work of divine inspiration, as some would have you believe...
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Old 01-22-2009, 07:40 PM
  # 29 (permalink)  
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really good points on why AA doesn't work for many

SR is a really good option if other programs are not available or you don't want face to face....

I get so much from SR....from the sharing of ideas by a huge variety of alchoholics and addicts...well fellow human beings actually.

I actually have found non-alchohoics to be ok for support as well...sure they don't completley get alchohol and drug adiction to the core of their soals, but they have been very good to me about supporting my recovery including the changes in life skills, patterns of thought etc.

the main thing for me seems to be compassion for myself and others.

lovely to see so many posting :ghug
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Old 01-22-2009, 11:04 PM
  # 30 (permalink)  
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But for me, this place is unique - fellow recovering drunks who are sober, but who don't and won't accept the concept of god (in any meaningful sense) but who can chat and support each other
Actually I am a believer (not a churchgoer). I support first and foremost sobriety, no matter how you find it. I also respect everyone's beliefs, or lack thereof - something you don't always see in an AA meeting, to be sure.
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Old 01-23-2009, 07:17 AM
  # 31 (permalink)  
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dgillz!
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Old 01-23-2009, 07:21 AM
  # 32 (permalink)  
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I think I have decided that I don't really need face to face support at the moment (I might be wrong, again!) but I don't even really click with anyone at aa.

All we have in common is the booze, i used to hang about with other alcoholics when I was active because we shared a love of booze, I dont want to make the same mistake again.

I want to hang about with people I like, why has it taken me so long to realise this?
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Old 01-23-2009, 07:32 AM
  # 33 (permalink)  
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Sometimes the simplest answers are the ones that are the hardest to see.
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Old 01-23-2009, 10:12 AM
  # 34 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by spark42 View Post
Sorry - text space again (damn this ps3 browser!)

so i kinda think just check out as many aa meetings as possible - they're usually the only game in town - and find progressive ones you're comfortable in.

Don't worry about the hardcore aa'ers telling you you're avoiding the program, or not doing it properly - find your own path!

But for me, this place is unique - fellow recovering drunks who are sober, but who don't and won't accept the concept of god (in any meaningful sense) but who can chat and support eachother - it's wicked (pun intended)

it makes all the difference knowing you're not alone - and us atheist aa attenders are definitely a minority!

Stay free and keep thinking! It's a god (heh! ) given gift!
/irony
What I find amazing is that secularists are much more tolerant and accepting of those who choose to believe whatever. I actually do believe there is some universal force, deity, what have you, but at the same time, if this higher power were to intervene in lives, I think a priority would be stopping wars, death and destruction, rather than intervening in individual's lives in the way that people in AA and in organized religion believe. IOW, God has something more important to do than find me a job or what have you. So I don't know what that makes me.
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Old 01-23-2009, 11:39 AM
  # 35 (permalink)  
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It makes you sensible Katie, I don't believe in this force at all but even if I did I would wonder what it was doing hanging around aa rooms instead of helping the starving.

Perhaps they just don't want food enough, it makes me feel a bit sick sometimes.

I know that is a bit simplistic but I have heard people say some amazingly offensive things in the rooms.

For some reason Im feeling really secular today i.e. anti religeon (i cant even spell it right) its not like me at all i always strive to be as non confrontational as possible.

I will blame it on early sobriety and let it go.
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Old 01-23-2009, 01:51 PM
  # 36 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by allport View Post
I don't believe in this force at all but even if I did I would wonder what it was doing hanging around aa rooms instead of helping the starving.


It never hit me until I stopped believing, but it's a wonder that some think humanity is so important a supreme super being or force would care to give two bags of llama droppings about people.



If I had fantastic powers, I wouldn't waste them on people. I'd be too busy crashing planets together and shooting various things into black holes.

Alas, I am powerless...so human tragedies do upset me and I do care.


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