This is not AA-bashing, I swear
 

I'm not AA (or religion) bashing with this, I just have trouble with the basic beliefs of AA-

I haven't been to an AA meeting precisely because past step one, it requires faith in some god. You're welcome to believe what you want, of course, and I respect that most people don't agree with me--nor should they-- but personally I think people who believe in god have an electrical fire in their heads. Just my opinion. So how exactly am I supposed to participate in a program that attempts to to "restore us to sanity" by believing the insane? And since I haven't found any alternative programs around here, I'm basically doing this on my own, and chatting on the boards here.

I'm on day 3 now, longer than I have been sober in a year or so. I feel like *pooh* actually, I have so much anxiety. Yesterday was worse though-- occasionally when I drink I do other drugs as well, and yesterday I was kicking myself for deleting my dealer's phone number. Had to resist the urge to call using friends and see if they could hook me up, but I actually managed to get through it.

It's embarrassing to think about it: here I am, a pretty average, middle class college student (a bit older than average, but most people don't seem to notice) and to look at me you'd never know I'm a raging alcoholic who does coke and meth on occasion. I can hear my mom echoing in the back of my head "That stuff, beer, drugs, any of that, is for losers and if I catch you using it I'll turn you in to the police." Well, wouldn't she be proud? Someone told me I was going to need to tell my parents about my attempts at recovery, but honestly, after that, would you tell your parents? Ha!

Thanks for listening to me babble.

:ghug3glad you're here on secular.....there are a number of us that post to the forum frequently. There are some other options besides AA and there are those like me who do AA but without the god stuff. There are a number of people who have their own "program of recovery" that they develop for themselves that are here on SR...you'll notice them as you read through the threads.

I'd post more, but gotta go back to work from lunch break...wanted you to know you are not alone

Hello, gneiss. Welcome to the secular side of SR. :wavey:

As ananda said, I do NA but without the god stuff. As for the steps, especially the HP ones, I chose my dog to be my HP because apparantly (sp?) I had to pick something! Whatever.

NA is helping me in so many ways but it is not for everyone. I can deal with hearing people talk about god, I just don't participate. I guess that falls under "Take what you need and leave the rest behind".

Hey gneiss! You're in fine company with this dilemma. I am working the program around being an atheist. Ignore people who say you can't. There are no laws in AA, just suggestions.

As my sober time has increased, I feel less and less prickly about the praying, etc. It helps a lot of people and that's why they do it, not to **** me off :) Part of what I came to realize when things were less all about me! But I did come on SR and rant my head off about it at first. For me, the good in AA outweighs the god. That said, I am always grateful for the secular forum here.

Hahaha!!! I'm thinking about the 12 steps of AA in relation to having my dog as my HP. You think my dog can remove some character defects? Probably not but I know she can bruise up my shins next time I take her to the park.

Never having been to an AA meeting I can't say, but my friends have invited me to church a few times and when I've gone with them I felt like everyone stared at me, "Look, she's not participating. HEATHEN!!!" SO churchy people kind of turn me off anyway. Oh, and then there's that pesky bit about not believing in god. And I've had a couple people (not here) tell me that I'm "filling up that God-sized hole with alcohol." Puh-lease.

Anyway, off for some good clean fun tonight. Bowling with friends, and I think they will be going to a bar but I'm taking my car and coming home if they choose to drink. Sigh. College towns suck in this regard: everyone drinks, there's not a whole lot else to do because 1/2 the population is college kids who want to drink so other businesses don't really get supported as well. And what really sucks is that a friend invited me to listen to his band play tonight, but they're playing in a bar and at this time I don't really think I should be in bars. Grrrr.

Later.

Have fun tonight. :)

My dog cannot remove my character defects but she can show me what REALLY matters in life!

My dog's name is bodhisattva...bodhi for short. A bodhisattva is sorta like a saint but different...they are great compassionate beings who teach us about "virtuous" (so sorta the opposite of charector defects!)

My dogs show me unconditional love and then teach me patience and tolerance.....sounds like it helps with charactor defect..or charactor building to me :)

Here's my two pennies
 

Hey there,

First I say I'm an AA... that said, I'm not a bible thumper, nor a Big Book thumper.

I am someone who NEEDED to get sober. After having a very similar difficulty, I decided that I had nothing to loose, except "the high cost of low living".

I'm not even going to try to touch the G/d argument. That's a fools errand. I can say that, at first, I just said "God" or "Higher Power" in reference to a better way of life. A generalist paradigm of "good living".

I still flinch on the word prayer, but I do meditate... sometimes, I guess it's prayer, sometimes it's scratching my head saying "WTF?"

Anyway, the important thing is to be sober. So whatever works, just work at it!

Best of luck!

Hey ananda, I have an all white cat I called Bodhi!
:)

Thanks everyone for your replies. I made it 3 and a half days. Last night I started shaking really bad... alcohol withdrawal, perhaps? Does that even happen? I don't know but I couldn't handle it and I had a beer. Dammit. The shaking stopped and then I just felt like a loser for drinking the beer so I poured out what was left. I decided to take it as a lesson for next time: letting myself down and the shame I felt for drinking overpowered the desire to finish that beer. A partial victory? Perhaps a complete defeat with a nice spin on it?

I'm tired of lying to my friends, and really tired of having to apologize to them. They let me off the hook pretty easily: "It's cool, you were drunk." I would be getting pissed off with me, if I were them. Honestly, how many times does "Sorry, I was sloshed," excuse your behavior? Not nearly as many times as I've used it.

Gneiss, I'm sorry you drank last night. You mentioned being on campus and having a hard time because college kids love to drink.

Are there any sober clubs on your campus? When I was in college, my school had one.

Good question re: sober clubs on campus. I'll have to look into it.

hey g,

My dr talked alot to me about the physical stuff with alchohol...it is tough cause if you have something like the shakyness...the alchohol will temprorarily stop it...but then it can come back worse...long term the best solution is to not drink.

I think it is great that you dumped it and really looked at what had happened.

I too was embarrased by my behavior drunk...now at 14 mos it still bothers me, but as time goes by sober, I am more able to accept taht the past is the past and the future holds the promise that I may never do that stuff again :)

Thanks for the info, Ananda. I know it's better not to drink at all. But then, easier said than done, as you well know.

I had to pour out all the liquor I had in the house. And I should have done all the beer as well, but I managed to miss a couple in the back of the refrigerator. Accident, or "accident"? Not that I should be drinking the beer, but compared to liquor... yeesh. I can't stop drinking liquor once I start. Last Monday night a friend and I ran up a $585 bar tab. I don't even remember going to the last bar, where most of this happened. If it weren't for a 1-minute long memory, which I wholeheartedly wish had never happened, I would swear we never even went into the last bar. And of course, if I hadn't gone out at all I might still have a little self-respect. Ugh. I guess that's really why I'm here, Monday night I think I faceplanted on rock bottom.

I've done a few of those faceplants. They often provide the initial momentum needed for another attempt at staying sober.

a buddy of mind ..put it in the best way to really understand and maybe you can make some sense out of it too ..
The statement "I am powerless over alcohol" has been bandied about many times on this site, with some people saying yes they are and others saying no (sometimes very definitively) they are certainly not. The phrase usually conjure up images on AA and, at least to me, is often misunderstood or applied too broadly.

I looked up the definition of powerless in Mirram-Webster's Online Dictionary and it defines it as:

1 : devoid of strength or resources <powerless victims>
2 : lacking the authority or capacity to act <was powerless to help>

If I take the first definition and apply it to my alcoholic problem and I admit that I am powerless of alcohol, then I am saying that I am devoid of the strength or resources needed to combat my drinking problem on my own. Before I go on let me clarify that admitting we are powerless over alcohol is not a lifelong commitment - it simply means at this moment in time we don't have the needed resources to address a specific problem by ourselves.

So, let's say that were were to admit it, then what is the answer to not having power? It is to become empowered - but the question is how? In AA people admit they are powerless, and then come to believe that a higher power can restore them to sanity. That power in AA is God, but a higher power can be anything! So, let's look at the definition of a higher power for a second. A higher power is a power that is greater than us, but realize that it doesn't have to be any type of deity. If I am suffering from cancer don't I turn to a group of doctors and nurses to solve a problem that I cannot solve myself? Isn't that by definition then a power greater than me?

Well, isn't that what we are doing here? Didn't we admit to ourselves (at least on some level) that we don't have the power to beat this problem all by ourselves and so we joined ? We are turning to a collective power that is greater than we are individually to get better. The wonderful thing about it is that we can gain power we are seeking to beat our problem right here, by relying on the wisdom of others to help us through the difficulties we are facing. Additionally, once we found that power and become stronger we can then share it with others who may be suffering.

So, you may or may not agree with being powerless - and that is your choice. But, don't automatically assume that looking for power means turning to God for answers or surrendering your spirit for the rest of your life. We are simply admitting to ourselves and others that we can't do this alone.....

I had to read that about 4 times to get everything out of it I thought was there. Thanks for the post, tlrgs.

While I'm at it, I love that pic SelfSeeking has for his pic... "Details are unimportant, just get me out." That's how I feel about the way my whole life is going. And what's amazing is that, on the outside you'd never know anything is wrong. I'm getting ready for grad school, I attend classes, I have lots of friends, I get decent grades... and then there's the secret little world of my alcohol and meth and coke and driving myself home from bars and not remembering it the next morning.

Here's the story of my life for the last few months. YouTube - Lit - My Own Worst Enemy At least, it sure feels like it.

I got it at icanhascheezburger.com :D I thought it was a good fit for this site.

Gneiss, take it from me, fresh into my involuntary semester-long leave of absence from grad school. Take care of it now. Learn to cope with your stress in non-chemical ways now before grad school hits the fan. My outside looked great, right up until it totally fell apart.

PS I'm a lady-poster.

< not a lady poster :lmao

hey Gneiss,

I get the AA trouble - if I relapse again I've promised all and sundry I'll do AA...and my HP would be the help and support and community I'd get from the 'Group of Drunks' there.

It need be no more complicated than that IMO.

But ok AA's not for you - what is?

Anything's gotta be better than faceplanting...and Self Seekings right...grad school crushes normal ppl like bugs - you go into that an active alcoholic?

from my experience and observation, you will crash and burn.

Act now - do something.
D

Totally. I want to go into grad school with a clear head, and maybe even feeling like myself again. And not have to take a semester off. That sounds horrible, in no small part because school is a huge positive force in my life. I'll go to class hungover if I have to, but I will be there, I MUST be there. Even with my drinking last semester I managed 18 hours of classes with a 3.0. Imagine the possibilities if I could stop drinking!!

I was telling a friend last night, as she was laughing about having gone out and gotten hammered the night before, that she needed to be careful. I didn't go into details but it really is amazing how fast it went from having fun and hanging out with friends to something I have very little control of. I guess I just have to be careful not to get preachy. I'm 27, and I wouldn't have listened to that sort of advice at 21. Heck, I still have trouble listening to it, obviously.

Although no longer a member, I simply cannot bash AA. It was there for me when I was going positively sideways. I think that old Bill W. is a brilliant man but there was simply a member borne climate I couldn't quite come to grips with. It saddens me a bit that AA is often thought of as the one and only answer as I wholeheartedly disagree with that notion.... yet there is tremendous wisdom there. Somewhere along the line I realized my brain had everything to do with my problem and that's what I'm trying to save these days...and in turn, hope it returns the favour.

I'm not bashing AA, it works for a lot of people and no way would I take that away. If you found a way out of your glass-walled prison, does it matter how you got out?

I just have trouble with it. It has been suggested that you can choose your HP to be anything, but they make it obvious they intend a Christian notion of God. This makes me uncomfortable with the whole process.

I used to journal a lot, it always helped me get my stress out-- I think most of the steps might even work if I decided my journal was my HP. But now? I don't want to write. There's a whisper in the back of my head: What if someone reads it? What if they find out? Maybe my mom drops by and gets nosy, or a roommate looking for those shoes I told her she could borrow gets curious what's in there, or... you get the point. I'm paranoid about it. Exactly 4 people know about the drugs I've done: the dealer, the two guys who do drugs with me, and one friend I worked up the nerve to tell because I knew she'd understand (and she did)... one possibly one professor who I ran into while high as a kite and I'm pretty sure he has first-hand experience with it. And the alcohol... it's fairly common knowledge that I drink, but I hide the worst of it.

Plus, drinking takes away my motivation to write. And it numbs the stress, even while adding to it. I'm back on day one right now, and the beer is calling to me.

my expereince is that you can get sober with out a traditional god. My expereince in working with other alchoholics is that writing is not a requirement of working steps or getting sober.

some things that helped me during the first few months of sobriety were...don't have alchohol in the house, don't go to the liquer store, stay busy, read and learn about alchoholism and ways that other people stay sober (not limited to AA way), talk to others who are struggling with this problem and help them when you can.

I really hope reading the threads at SR is helping you to find some tools to deal with the desire to drink and your life issues. I just try to not get too wrapped up in the expereinces that don't seem like they would work for me and focus on the expereinces and tools that people share that I feel i can use.


:ghug2

Most of us thought only a handful of people know already Gneiss, but I hope in this case you're right. It's not nice to be the 'town drunk".

But frankly? if you want to make certain that everyone comes to know?
answer that beer call.

It really doesn't get better. It gets way worse.

Like I said before - act now.
Today's better than tomorrow, Gneiss.

Ananda said it all really - if you can't get your head around it and AA doesn't work for you cos of the God thing? Ditch it. AA wasn't for me either - no harm no foul.

But it's up to you to work hard and find something that does work for you. This is your life you're dealing with here.
In the absense of any other plan, 'I will not drink today' is a good start.

D

I was referring to my drug use when I said only a few people knew, and I'm absolutely sure of that. Alcohol is not illegal so if people know you drink it's no big deal. But if they know you snort coke? You might have the cops knocking on your door, hence I was extremely careful about keeping that under wraps.

The drinking? Ugh. I don't even want to think about how many people have figured that out. Friends who even live in other states have asked me how much I've been drinking... I still hide the worst of it.

It's 1:30 in the morning, and at 12:15 I woke up my housemate and told him he had to take his beer out of the refrigerator and get it out of the house, I'd pay him for it if he just threw it out or whatever, but it can't be here. This of course led to a lot of questions, and for once in my life I decided I just had to be honest about this or it would never get better. And much to my shock and relief.. he did. I was expecting him to tell me I was over-reacting or something, but he was cool. He even let me cry, which he usually gets really uncomfortable about. He said, "It doesn't matter how much you are drinking or what I think. If you think it's a problem, obviously there's something about your drinking that worries you and therefore you need to stop. And if I have to sacrifice a 12-pack it's the least I can do." And with that he poured it all out.

I didn't drink. I can do this. I made it through Day One. One day at a time doesn't seem to work for me though. It's more like, can I make it to lunch? Well if I can make it to lunch then certainly the time from lunch to dinner is manageable. After dinner? Homework. Pour it on, time to study. I have exams in 2 weeks. I'm not going to drink today.

sorry for slightly getting the wrong end of the stick - must have misread it - good luck with your exams :)

D

I'm surprised no one has mentioned anything other than AA or (take what you need) AA.

I started in AA, did my 90 and 90, I was frustrated that there was no other literature other than the Big Book (and the supplemental AA literature which was based on it). I got some silly answers from my sponsor as to why *only* the Big Book was relevant to my sobriety (salvation).

In any case, I'm in SMART now, been for the last ~7 months. They have a very large recommended reading list of current books in publication. It makes a lot more sense to me to get a wide variety of research, perspectives, and approaches...and use those as tools rather than a single book, which is quite dated.

There are a number of secular sobriety programs out there, there should be a sticky at the top of this sub-forum, I think?

I don't do 'no steenking programme' so I can't recommend any LOL
I recommend ppl look at as many as possible - they all work for somebody :)

There's a sticky in the alchoholics forum
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-programs.html

D