To My Secular Friends
Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Glitzville
Posts: 334
Paul, my homie bro...
Sneaking in late on a Saturday night for a little diatribe because I care for you deeply.
I feel you didn't really explain yourself clearly at the outset when you started your torn thread. It became fuller toward the end. Maybe I don't know what torn is because I never chose to be an alcoholic, who the hell would ever choose such a horrid life? I could only make the choice to stop.
And it has to be forever. That's the kicker. We swallow it in small chunks to get us by, but the reality is we alcoholics can't ever drink safely again. Never. I think we all know this. Doesn't matter if it's SMART, RR, AA, solo, therapists, it's nada. I drink, I die in an ugly grotesque manner, and there will probably be collateral damage. That's my CB analysis. And I never even got a DUI.
I believe that's the unspoken code here on SR, why the owners have so graciously allowed us to be here and the moderators give of their time so generously. We suck up the community and welcome the laughs for they are sorely needed. If one of our comrades falls, we'll be there to pick them up. Over and over again. Who wouldn't try to save someone from dying if they could?
But if you're not an alcoholic, if your brain isn't wired that way for whatever reason, you can't know what I'm expressing in your gut, or your heart, or your mind. One can broach it empirically, but nothing more. In that respect, it really does take one to know one; there's a bizarre chasm that separates us from others who imbibe. Will you become alcoholic if you continue to drink the way you do? I seriously doubt it. But I hope you let us know if that happens.
I can't speak for other substances, there are forums for those, as it's not my deal. As for pot, I don't know and don't care. It's illegal and escaping reality and cheating, but it won't kill you that I know.
Sorry for rambling on. I just wanted express my truth and from where I'm coming.
You are loved and liked here. For good reason.
If I can ever do anything, or be there for you just because I care...just holler. I've got lots of minutes on the cell and would talk with you in a heartbeat.
Keep singing, my friend. You know I've always wanted to pull up a chair to watch you belting at the mic.
Much love,
Donna
Sneaking in late on a Saturday night for a little diatribe because I care for you deeply.
I feel you didn't really explain yourself clearly at the outset when you started your torn thread. It became fuller toward the end. Maybe I don't know what torn is because I never chose to be an alcoholic, who the hell would ever choose such a horrid life? I could only make the choice to stop.
And it has to be forever. That's the kicker. We swallow it in small chunks to get us by, but the reality is we alcoholics can't ever drink safely again. Never. I think we all know this. Doesn't matter if it's SMART, RR, AA, solo, therapists, it's nada. I drink, I die in an ugly grotesque manner, and there will probably be collateral damage. That's my CB analysis. And I never even got a DUI.
I believe that's the unspoken code here on SR, why the owners have so graciously allowed us to be here and the moderators give of their time so generously. We suck up the community and welcome the laughs for they are sorely needed. If one of our comrades falls, we'll be there to pick them up. Over and over again. Who wouldn't try to save someone from dying if they could?
But if you're not an alcoholic, if your brain isn't wired that way for whatever reason, you can't know what I'm expressing in your gut, or your heart, or your mind. One can broach it empirically, but nothing more. In that respect, it really does take one to know one; there's a bizarre chasm that separates us from others who imbibe. Will you become alcoholic if you continue to drink the way you do? I seriously doubt it. But I hope you let us know if that happens.
I can't speak for other substances, there are forums for those, as it's not my deal. As for pot, I don't know and don't care. It's illegal and escaping reality and cheating, but it won't kill you that I know.
Sorry for rambling on. I just wanted express my truth and from where I'm coming.
You are loved and liked here. For good reason.
If I can ever do anything, or be there for you just because I care...just holler. I've got lots of minutes on the cell and would talk with you in a heartbeat.
Keep singing, my friend. You know I've always wanted to pull up a chair to watch you belting at the mic.
Much love,
Donna
I got nothin'
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: My house.
Posts: 4,890
Hey, DK. I just woke up and read the rest of your locked thread.
I saw that you mentioned you aren't physically dependent on alcohol. From the way some folks talk about it here, I'm NOT physically dependent. I never was, even with the amount I drank. I never had the DT’s…I didn’t have seizures…I never had to detox in the hospital.
And cravings. What, exactly, are those? Is that like having a hankering for a cheeseburger? If so, then I’ve never had any cravings. Or at the very least, my cravings were different from that. It was more like an obsession.
It's all in my head. The endless thoughts, the obsessing. As soon as I do have one I keep going. The end goal is getting as messed up as I want to be, whatever that amount is for that particular time. I’m only happy if I hit that goal.
When I don’t have booze I have SR. I’m tired of being on the internet so much. I want to break free from this and I have to wonder if I ever will escape addiction. SR does help me, but I feel like I’m substituting. Why can’t/won’t I do my art instead? I have abilities. Why do I have such creative block?
I don’t know.
I saw that you mentioned you aren't physically dependent on alcohol. From the way some folks talk about it here, I'm NOT physically dependent. I never was, even with the amount I drank. I never had the DT’s…I didn’t have seizures…I never had to detox in the hospital.
And cravings. What, exactly, are those? Is that like having a hankering for a cheeseburger? If so, then I’ve never had any cravings. Or at the very least, my cravings were different from that. It was more like an obsession.
It's all in my head. The endless thoughts, the obsessing. As soon as I do have one I keep going. The end goal is getting as messed up as I want to be, whatever that amount is for that particular time. I’m only happy if I hit that goal.
When I don’t have booze I have SR. I’m tired of being on the internet so much. I want to break free from this and I have to wonder if I ever will escape addiction. SR does help me, but I feel like I’m substituting. Why can’t/won’t I do my art instead? I have abilities. Why do I have such creative block?
I don’t know.
Reach Out and Touch Faith
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: On a Sailboat
Posts: 3,871
Paul, as long as you (and others) keep on the topic of your questions about drinking and your discussions of recovery I'm fine if you continue your discussions here.
I look forward to reading about your inner journey.
I look forward to reading about your inner journey.
Reach Out and Touch Faith
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: On a Sailboat
Posts: 3,871
Just another FYI, in the future if you have an issue with moderation please send a PM to the moderator of the forum.
If you wish a thread here in SC to be closed please shoot me a PM. That way if I'm not online I will receive a notification in my email instead of having to play mind-reader.
Big Thanks!
Alera.
If you wish a thread here in SC to be closed please shoot me a PM. That way if I'm not online I will receive a notification in my email instead of having to play mind-reader.
Big Thanks!
Alera.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,373
Bam
my creative stuff came back but it took a while - longer than 6 months anyway. It's the nature of the best I think - we spend years drinking - it takes a while for the muse to renew itself
Sorry for the mini-hijack
D
my creative stuff came back but it took a while - longer than 6 months anyway. It's the nature of the best I think - we spend years drinking - it takes a while for the muse to renew itself
Sorry for the mini-hijack
D
Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pugetopolis
Posts: 2,384
Alcoholism isn't necessarily a physical dependance on alcohol. It is what happens when you drink alcohol. At some point do you lose control of the amount you drink? That is the one defining factor of alcoholism.
Never settle.
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Under immense pressure
Posts: 1,505
Doesn't everyone lose control of how much they drink at some point? Even the most responsible drinkers I know, when given enough alcohol, will just keep drinking. Until I read that definition I would never have classified them as alcoholics. They are just people who drink a normal amount and maybe once or twice in their lives misjudged how much they could consume on a given night. So I guess every person I have ever met is a raging alkie. Wow.
mergirl
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Paradise
Posts: 4,161
with me it was just a single night. Drank too much, blacked out, fooled around with an off-limits kind of guy. Woke up and was MAD that alcohol had more say in what I did that night than I did, gave it up.
Looking back, I can see years and years, piles and piles of bs that came from drinking. Looking around on these forums, I see the endless stream of accounts the destruction alcohol can cause.
could I maybe moderate and never wake up to a gross story again? maybe. Could I go out and party with my pals and have fun with it again? maybe. But in reading other peoples stories, and from my own experience, I know the risks. I'm not handing over the controls to my personal choice and freedom to anything ever again.
Looking back, I can see years and years, piles and piles of bs that came from drinking. Looking around on these forums, I see the endless stream of accounts the destruction alcohol can cause.
could I maybe moderate and never wake up to a gross story again? maybe. Could I go out and party with my pals and have fun with it again? maybe. But in reading other peoples stories, and from my own experience, I know the risks. I'm not handing over the controls to my personal choice and freedom to anything ever again.
Last edited by Gypsy Feet; 04-26-2009 at 07:36 AM. Reason: typos=)
Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 18,299
Originally Posted by jimhere 
Alcoholism isn't necessarily a physical dependance on alcohol. It is what happens when you drink alcohol. At some point do you lose control of the amount you drink? That is the one defining factor of alcoholism.
Gneiss, obviously lots of normal drinkers go too far sometimes, in this country (UK) weekend binge drinking for younger people is quite normal but when they reach a certain age they tone it down...an alcoholic cannot "tone it down" when they really want to.
I agree with Jim's definition, if I wanted to be smart I could find a way to say it is wrong, but surely you know what he means?
Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pugetopolis
Posts: 2,384
Originally Posted by gneiss
Doesn't everyone lose control of how much they drink at some point? Even the most responsible drinkers I know, when given enough alcohol, will just keep drinking. Until I read that definition I would never have classified them as alcoholics. They are just people who drink a normal amount and maybe once or twice in their lives misjudged how much they could consume on a given night. So I guess every person I have ever met is a raging alkie. Wow.
The answer is no. Give anyone enough to drink and they will probably do something stupid. Doing stupid stuff and getting DUI's doesn't define alcoholism.
The difference between myself and my non-alcoholic sister:
I start drinking, I feel it, I want more. It is a phenomenon beyond my mental control. I have no idea how much I will drink, what I will do, who I will do it with, where I will end up, or how long I will drink. I don't drink until I'm done, I drink until it's done. If you can't identify with that, you're not alcoholic.
My sister on the other hand, has a few drinks and says "I'm starting to feel it," and leaves it at that. Sometimes she even leaves a half-full drink.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Central, La.
Posts: 422
I had to work on the things going on in my head which kept me searching for something chemical to make "feel" different. I took the chemicals away and I was left with "me". OOWEE. So, I had to look inside myself, searching (with help) for the things which kept me thinking, rationalizing, justifying, and deceiving myself into "this stuff is okay" or "I really don't have a problem with this".... I had to realize I am okay living inside my own skin without chemicals....Recovery has brought me this gift..... Don't give up and keep trying.... We are all here for you DK........
Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Htown, baby!
Posts: 384
I agree with gneiss and I don't think she was trying to be smart. Its common sense. Anyone who drinks enough will lose control because alcohol affects judgment. When you're drunk, its easier to say, "one more won't hurt."
If we bought Jim's definition, a person can declare himself an alkie after just a few drinking sessions. And someone who can stop at 5-6 drinks every night wouldnt be an alkie, because they didn't lose control, nevermind that six drinks everynight will cause problems.
Thats what I don't like about the word "alcoholic". I prefer talking in terms of how addicted or physically dependent the person is to their DOC, and the only reliable measure of how addicted someone is is by how often they drink and the severity of withdrawals.
If we bought Jim's definition, a person can declare himself an alkie after just a few drinking sessions. And someone who can stop at 5-6 drinks every night wouldnt be an alkie, because they didn't lose control, nevermind that six drinks everynight will cause problems.
Thats what I don't like about the word "alcoholic". I prefer talking in terms of how addicted or physically dependent the person is to their DOC, and the only reliable measure of how addicted someone is is by how often they drink and the severity of withdrawals.
6/20/08
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,467
I can't have a beer on a hot afternoon.
I can't have wine with dinner.
I can't have a beer at at a baseball game.
Because....I can't stop with one. I can't. I am an alcoholic.
I don't care how it's defined. Alcohol has crapped on 30 years of my life. I won't let it happen another day.
DK, I thank you for this thread. I am learning a lot.
I can't have wine with dinner.
I can't have a beer at at a baseball game.
Because....I can't stop with one. I can't. I am an alcoholic.
I don't care how it's defined. Alcohol has crapped on 30 years of my life. I won't let it happen another day.
DK, I thank you for this thread. I am learning a lot.
Never settle.
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Under immense pressure
Posts: 1,505
I wasn't just trying to be smart. It was a comment on my understanding of jim's post. The last line, about everyone I know being a raging alkie, was a bit sarcastic but otherwise the post was pretty straightforward.
When it comes down to it I don't know that there's an actual functional definition of "alcoholic."
Someone who drinks too much: Who hasn't?
Someone whose drinking causes some sort of problem in their life: Whether it's getting yelled at by your boss for being hungover at work once in a while or chronic issues with your loved ones, alcohol causes all sorts of little nuisance issues and major problems.
Someone who loses control: already discussed.
The list goes on but you get the point.
This is one of the main reasons I refuse to go to counseling for my alcohol/drug problems or anything else (a lot of which greatly contributed to my use). I absolutely hate the way psychologists babble on about words they have never defined. Every person is different so there's no set definition, or the definition has so many qualifiers and loopholes it is useless. The entire pseudo-science of psychology really can't offer much because they can't even agree on what they are discussing.
JMO.
(I will now crawl back into my lab and study natural sciences, where we can all look at a rock and agree that it is, in fact, gneiss. Blessedly unambiguous. We can argue lots of things about that rock, but at least we know what it is.)
When it comes down to it I don't know that there's an actual functional definition of "alcoholic."
Someone who drinks too much: Who hasn't?
Someone whose drinking causes some sort of problem in their life: Whether it's getting yelled at by your boss for being hungover at work once in a while or chronic issues with your loved ones, alcohol causes all sorts of little nuisance issues and major problems.
Someone who loses control: already discussed.
The list goes on but you get the point.
This is one of the main reasons I refuse to go to counseling for my alcohol/drug problems or anything else (a lot of which greatly contributed to my use). I absolutely hate the way psychologists babble on about words they have never defined. Every person is different so there's no set definition, or the definition has so many qualifiers and loopholes it is useless. The entire pseudo-science of psychology really can't offer much because they can't even agree on what they are discussing.
JMO.(I will now crawl back into my lab and study natural sciences, where we can all look at a rock and agree that it is, in fact, gneiss. Blessedly unambiguous. We can argue lots of things about that rock, but at least we know what it is.)
I got nothin'
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: My house.
Posts: 4,890
Psychology as a pseudoscience? Ouch.
While there are certainly a crap ton of variables when dealing with mental conditions/illnesses, researchers do have testable theories in this discipline. This field is most certainly in its infancy, but as technology and methods improve, so will psychology.
I have depression and anxiety and have benefited from therapy many years before. Also, the med that I’m on right now is helping. I know I can’t do this on my own. Therapy and meds is the best shot I have.
While there are certainly a crap ton of variables when dealing with mental conditions/illnesses, researchers do have testable theories in this discipline. This field is most certainly in its infancy, but as technology and methods improve, so will psychology.
I have depression and anxiety and have benefited from therapy many years before. Also, the med that I’m on right now is helping. I know I can’t do this on my own. Therapy and meds is the best shot I have.
Knucklehead
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Davenport, WA
Posts: 4,005
I guess I'm not an alcoholic, I just have serious mental problems and use alcohol and pot to cope. Which means I don't belong here, which makes me really sad, which makes me want to drink, or smoke pot, or drop acid, or just smash my head against a wall, or nail my foot to the floor board of my Ford (or Subaru)...
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