Blogs


Notices

moderation management

Old 04-28-2008, 12:45 PM
  # 21 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Northern California
Posts: 57
I gave this a shot for awhile, and even pulled it off for a short while, but man, was I miserable. The fact is, I don't want to drink in moderation. People who drink in moderation make *no* sense to me and they never have. A glass of wine with dinner? One glass? Are you serious? What's the point? A couple of beers? Come on, we all know that means at least 8...right?

What I want is to be able to drink like an alcoholic--starting first thing in the morning, staying wasted all day, passing out at night, and starting all over again the next day--without any consequences. No loss of job, no hangovers, no divorce, no hurling on the rug, no blackouts...or at least no really embarassing blackouts.

For some reason I never worked out a way to accomplish that, so sobriety is the only goal. And the only time I was happy when I tried to manage was during that 30 day period of not drinking at all.
Yardbird is offline  
Old 04-29-2008, 03:45 AM
  # 22 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 16
Lol Yardbird You really like your poison and/or you have a bionic body I know what you mean- I'd like to completely forget how it feels to drink, and put that sensation in the past. Abstenance helps, but drinking causally keeps it on my mind.
Bel303 is offline  
Old 04-29-2008, 07:44 AM
  # 23 (permalink)  
Big Idiot Man Child
 
windysan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: La
Posts: 5,664
Originally Posted by Yardbird View Post
I gave this a shot for awhile, and even pulled it off for a short while, but man, was I miserable. The fact is, I don't want to drink in moderation. People who drink in moderation make *no* sense to me and they never have. A glass of wine with dinner? One glass? Are you serious? What's the point? A couple of beers? Come on, we all know that means at least 8...right?

What I want is to be able to drink like an alcoholic--starting first thing in the morning, staying wasted all day, passing out at night, and starting all over again the next day--without any consequences. No loss of job, no hangovers, no divorce, no hurling on the rug, no blackouts...or at least no really embarassing blackouts.

For some reason I never worked out a way to accomplish that, so sobriety is the only goal. And the only time I was happy when I tried to manage was during that 30 day period of not drinking at all.
i'm glad i ain't a akaholic
windysan is offline  
Old 04-30-2008, 08:34 AM
  # 24 (permalink)  
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Murrieta, CA
Posts: 38
I used to think I could moderate and had done for a long time, but it takes just one night of losing control and you put everything in danger. I, personally, don't think this can be pulled off.
For me the only option is complete abstinance.
kmill is offline  
Old 04-30-2008, 09:17 AM
  # 25 (permalink)  
Reach Out and Touch Faith
 
shockozulu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: On a Sailboat
Posts: 3,871
I think its a good program for those who are not alcoholics. Most problem drinkers are not. In addition, harm reduction has its place in treatment as well.
shockozulu is offline  
Old 05-04-2008, 04:32 PM
  # 26 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 30
I'm interested in exploring this (as well as other) approaches.
Right now, just getting started on recovery (after a decade or so of problem drinking/alcoholism whatever one chooses to call it.) I plan on working with the so-called Rational Recovery approach (which, from what I can tell, is an abstinance program and does not advocate "moderation", but as total abstinance is my ultimate goal, gonna give it a shot.)

I am actually on day 2 of moderating, not as an ultimate goal, but as a way to hopefully reduce my consumption to the point I can quit safely (or safer, anyway). I have been able to do this for extended periods, either stopping altogether cold turkey or keeping my drinking down to 1 or 2 a day, socially, in the past (but always end up choosing to drink to excess, eventually..and yes, I DID choose it, so not sure what that makes me, besides stupid as a bag of rocks)

ANYWAY, just reading and wanted to offer something from a book I have found helpful, On Writing by Stephen King (who is, I believe, an AA guy, and one who definately considers himself an alcoholic, and he's probably right.)

The book is mostly about writing, but he deals very honestly with his issues with alcohol and later other drugs along the way. (I remember that some of his "fans" expressed dissappointment and shock at his revelations, but I thought, "Uh, big secret, folks...this was the guy who wrote The Shining, for pete's sake! Of COURSE he was a drunk!" Not to mention it offended me that some said they lost respect for him over the news....not me, man; took a LOT of courage to go public like that, and has likely helped a lot of people, PLUS he's sober going on 15 yrs)

But I digress (get used to it:chatter )

I think there is great insight in the following:

(to preface, he is relating how his state enacted a can/bottle return law and that forced him to acknowledge how much beer he was putting away, due to the quickly filling can of empties in the garage)

"Holy S&^%, I'm an alcoholic, I thought, and there was no dissenting opinion from inside my head-I was, after all, the guy who had written The Shining without even realizing ..that I was writing about myself. My reaction to this idea wasn't denial or disagreement; it was what I'd call frightened determination. You have to be careful, then, I clearly remember thinking. Because if you F&^% up-
If I F^&% up, rolled my car over on a back road some night or blew an interview on live TV, someone would tell me I ought to get control of my drinking, and telling an alcoholic to control his drinking is like telling a guy suffering the world's most cataclysmic case of diarrhea to control his S&*^%%$."
(hope the comic page "profanity" is ok....not wanting to offend anyone or violate any guidlines, just wanting to keep as true to the passage as written)

P.s. Just for the record, not had a drop to drink today, I'm just naturally long-winded and prone to tangents, lol!
Ravensoul is offline  
Old 05-18-2008, 03:22 PM
  # 27 (permalink)  
totfit
 
totfit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Ft Collins, CO
Posts: 1,267
Blog Entries: 2
MM actually has an abstinece branch also. Mostly it is people that have tried to moderate, but found that they can't. There are a good bunch of folks there. There are people in MM that have not had a drink in years and just choose to hang their hat there.
totfit is offline  
Old 05-19-2008, 10:40 AM
  # 28 (permalink)  
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 18
MM didn't work here.

And "God" knows I've tried. I've tried to moderate my addictive behavior for decades. NEVER worked for me.
whattyawantmeto is offline  
Old 05-19-2008, 10:44 AM
  # 29 (permalink)  
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 18
Exactly!

Originally Posted by nandm View Post
Isn't one of the big problems of alcoholics denial? I denied I was an alcoholic for years after I had evidence staring me in the face that I was an alcoholic. Although I believe there a normal drinkers out there I have to wonder if they are truly normal drinkers then why would they need to learn to moderate. None of the normal drinkers I know had to learn to moderate.
Exactly!
whattyawantmeto is offline  
Old 05-19-2008, 11:05 AM
  # 30 (permalink)  
Silly Rabbit
 
Emimily's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 956
Blog Entries: 6
dude, it would suck so bad to try to focus on enjoying "one or two" a night. i didn't drink cause i liked the taste of jack n coke, i drank because i loved the effect of jack n coke. one or two ain't gonna cut it, unless it's a 20 oz. one or two.

somehow, i don't think that's what MM has in mind.
Emimily is offline  
Old 05-19-2008, 02:25 PM
  # 31 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 69
I think for Moderation Management to work, you have to believe that you can alter your behavior. You have to BELIEVE that you are not going to get drunk. You have to BELIEVE that you can have one.
There is a lot of research on the effects of just stopping and the thinking that having just one is a failure. Thus the following binge that one goes on feeling that he/she might as well as they lost all that time anyway. The fear based life of one is going to kill ya might just kill ya if you have one and go on a binge out of guilt...

just a thought...
Thinkingabit is offline  
Old 06-21-2008, 11:12 PM
  # 32 (permalink)  
Tooners
 
Tooners's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Seattle, Washington
Posts: 4
The lady who founded MM is from the same area that I am. She actually ended up posting on the MM website years back that she was quitting moderation management in favor of the total abstinence of a 12 step program because MM wasn't working for her. A few months later she killed two people while driving on the wrong side of the freeway. She was driving across the state and couldn't even remember why she was headed there. I know that feeling. Once I start drinking, there is no stopping me and when I was drinking there was no reasoning with me. I was a black out drinker, but I would have told you I could probably moderate!
Tooners is offline  
Old 06-23-2008, 07:04 PM
  # 33 (permalink)  
Member
 
Stamps43's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 16
Blog Entries: 9
2 + 2 = 234?

I have to agree with all those that had stated that those capable of moderation do not need guidance on how to maintain it. I find that friends who realized I stopped drinking very much asked the question, "Well, can't you just cut back?" Unfortunately, I believed them the first time I heard this. My moderation management was about the equivalent of letting General Motors run my drinking urges.
Stamps43 is offline  
Old 06-27-2008, 10:28 AM
  # 34 (permalink)  
Moderator
 
Peter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Leaving Sparta
Posts: 2,912
Moderation?

I tried that for sixteen years, did'nt work.

It would seem to me that someone who would need to join a programme to "manage" their drinking probably has no business drinking, period.

Drinking is not a necsssity. Drinking is supposed to be for recreation and pleasure. If I have to actively practice "moderation management" then where's the fun in that.
Peter is offline  
Old 06-28-2008, 07:02 PM
  # 35 (permalink)  
☯ ⓌⒾⓁⓁ☯
 
Zencat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxnard (The Nard), CA, USA.
Posts: 8,244
Blog Entries: 12
Originally Posted by Alera View Post
I think its a good program for those who are not alcoholics. Most problem drinkers are not. In addition, harm reduction has its place in treatment as well.
I have used harm reduction (HR) in the past. It was a better option than moderation management for me. Like those that have posted, I drank to get high. With HR I stayed in counseling and worked towards abstinence. Progressively I was able to put more clean time between usage. Today I have 6 months.
Zencat is offline  
Old 06-29-2008, 04:51 PM
  # 36 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: pennsylvania
Posts: 7
explain harm reduction?

could someone tell more about harm reduction?never heard of this before.
anjole is offline  
Old 06-30-2008, 09:52 AM
  # 37 (permalink)  
Reach Out and Touch Faith
 
shockozulu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: On a Sailboat
Posts: 3,871
Harm reduction is a theory that it can be better to reduce the harm caused by drug and alcohol abuse if the person does not wish to stop using.

Examples include my family rule that if any single person questions another member's sobriety we are allowed to take their car keys until we feel they are safe to drive-- there is not any judgment or conditions. You enter my home and drink, you may end up on my couch in front of my TV without your keys until you appear sober + 1 hour.

Other "official" forms include moderation management, needle exchange programs to prevent the spread of HIV and teaching classes on how to deal with an overdose so that addicts will treat others instead of freaking out and letting their friends die.
shockozulu is offline  
Old 06-30-2008, 09:43 PM
  # 38 (permalink)  
☯ ⓌⒾⓁⓁ☯
 
Zencat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxnard (The Nard), CA, USA.
Posts: 8,244
Blog Entries: 12
Originally Posted by anjole View Post
could someone tell more about harm reduction?never heard of this before.

As I said I was working with a counselor and attending AA meetings but I choose to drink. My goal was to go as long as I could between use as well as not drive or limit my use. Ultimately working towards total abstinence. Staying in recovery,working with my counselor was the key. In addition to that I attended weekly groups at a county clinic.
Originally Posted by Alera
Examples include my family rule that if any single person questions another member's sobriety we are allowed to take their car keys until we feel they are safe to drive-- there is not any judgment or conditions. You enter my home and drink, you may end up on my couch in front of my TV without your keys until you appear sober + 1 hour.
Good example Alera.
Zencat is offline  
Old 07-09-2008, 07:31 PM
  # 39 (permalink)  
contemplating
 
dryjuliet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 16
moderation is the delima

I have looked into MM...im not sure what to consider myself at this point..alcoholic or pre-alcoholic? I cannot go out and have just one...if i could, i would be okay. I have to get hammered, otherwise its a waste. Im not dependent though, and drink mostly on the weekends...so i feel lost in this world of alcoholic or not, or how to quit! AHH! but atleast i recognize MM is not happening.....
dryjuliet is offline  
Old 07-09-2008, 08:13 PM
  # 40 (permalink)  
Reach Out and Touch Faith
 
shockozulu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: On a Sailboat
Posts: 3,871
Originally Posted by dryjuliet View Post
I have looked into MM...im not sure what to consider myself at this point..alcoholic or pre-alcoholic? I cannot go out and have just one...if i could, i would be okay.
If you can't stop, most people, including those in secular recovery, consider this the behavior of a person who is an alcoholic.

I have to get hammered, otherwise its a waste. Im not dependent though, and drink mostly on the weekends...so i feel lost in this world of alcoholic or not, or how to quit! AHH! but atleast i recognize MM is not happening.....
dryjuliet, consider why you consider this a waste. Those without drinking problems consider getting hammered every weekend a waste.

You may be a binge drinker, which is a form of alcoholic. Have you looked into that possibility?

You also mentioned you have looked into MM. Have you done what they recommend and stop drinking for a month? If you tried, what happened?

When I began to feel if I didn't get hammered on my pain pills, I knew something was wrong with my behavior (not me as a person, my behavior).

That is my ESH (Experience, Strength and Hope).
shockozulu is offline  

Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off




All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:35 PM.