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Old 11-22-2008, 12:43 PM
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ive just found this thread and im so glad, i love all the SR forums but its nice to find a place where the answer to any question or problem isnt "go to AA" i have nothing against AA, I go to meetings occasionally for that face to face thing (there are no secular groups meeting any where near me) but it sometimes leaves me feeling worse. I read about the flying spaghetti monster in Richard Dawkins The God Delusion but this is the first time i have seen his noodleness. Apparently there is a split in his church, is nothing sacred?
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Old 11-22-2008, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by ananda View Post
personally..i prefer meatless spagetti
I also enjoy a vagetarian meal from time to time..
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Old 11-22-2008, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by allport View Post
Apparently there is a split in his church, is nothing sacred?


Welcome allport!

Yeah, good luck on getting together with secular groups. And why is that, begs the question?

Why do you feel worse after attending a meeting? Some of us attend AA. I've never felt worse afterward, but I am looking into some different meetings. Who knows where the future will lead. Some here attended AA early on and then found another path. Some find their own way in AA and it works for them. Some have success with online SMART (et all) meetings and exercises. It's all good, so long as we don't drink and find a way to inner peace and outward productivity.

I do believe that early recovery is a dicey period, and support can make a real difference in making it. Change and growth are difficult when the brain/mind is struggling to regain some kind of equilibrium, not to mention long ingrained habits and baggage. This takes time.

Anyway, again, welcome. Please vent away as much as you want.

I hope you find what is right for you and your recovery.

Hugs,

Donna
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Old 11-22-2008, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by desertdonna View Post
Why do you feel worse after attending a meeting?
It can be a quite a let down when you don't really feel like you fit, when you don't share the beliefs that make the group cohesive. Even worse when you hear people proselytizing against what you do believe...
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Old 11-22-2008, 03:50 PM
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I like meetings when people share honestly how it was for them and how it is now, i often find myself very moved by some of the stories i hear. I walk away feeling worse when it a meeting full of what i would call AA fundamentalists. I hate being told in one breath that its not about religeon only to be told later that if i dont have a higher power all i can look forward to is insanity or death. I cant do things the AA way, i first went a few years ago and i really tried, in a way i owe my militant atheism to AA. I have never believed in god for as long as i remember but i never really thought about it, once i started to try and do the steps i had to examine my belief system more carefully and bit by bit i began realise that i disbelieve very strongly. Again i have nothing against AA as a group of recovering individuals, some of the people i have met there are nothing short of inspirational, but i cant commit myself to a fellowship that condemns me simply because i cant turn my life over to something which amounts to no more than wishful thinking (of course this is only my opinion but i am entitled to it). x
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Old 11-22-2008, 03:54 PM
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woah sorry about that rant, i didnt realise i was that annoyed, although i dont take it back perhaps i should learn to be less aggressive.
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Old 11-22-2008, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by allport View Post
in a way i owe my militant atheism to AA. I have never believed in god for as long as i remember but i never really thought about it, once i started to try and do the steps i had to examine my belief system more carefully and bit by bit i began realise that i disbelieve very strongly.
Me too.
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Old 11-22-2008, 08:00 PM
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Hey, I have a question about the secular connections section of SR and this thread seems like a good place to ask since it looks like a miscellaneous topics gathering. I'm just jumping in here without reading more than a few posts in the thread so I could be wrong.

So here's the question:

Is this section of SR typically for atheists? agnostics? people that may be religious but just don't want to make that a part of their recovery? some or all of the above?
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Old 11-22-2008, 08:16 PM
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All of the above.
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Old 11-22-2008, 09:27 PM
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yep...all of the above. Plus alot of tolerance and love and support for people who are truley working on recovery with honesty as to where they are.

I doing great today...I think sharing my expereince with other alchoholics today really helped me. Several people in that meeting that I attend on a regular basis said they enjoyed hearing me share in a semi time linear way about my struggles with alchoholism and with AA. I feel closer to them right now than ever.

I get that from SR as well.

secular thread rocks
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Old 11-22-2008, 10:27 PM
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Thanks doornob.

I consider myself to be an agnostic. To me, it's the most logical, but I will admit that sometimes it's feels like a cop out to take the "maybe there is, maybe there isn't" position.

Hey ananda, nice surprise to see you here providing your answer to my question.
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Old 11-22-2008, 11:44 PM
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Hey gang

checking in - another weekend down - still alive and kicking

D
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Old 11-23-2008, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by joinedintime View Post
I consider myself to be an agnostic. To me, it's the most logical, but I will admit that sometimes it's feels like a cop out to take the "maybe there is, maybe there isn't" position.

Nah, I don't think it's a cop out. You can only go by the evidence presented to you…there are a lot of unknowns when it comes to the Universe (and beyond?) and the existence of life.

I don't know...Personally, I don't think that anyone has presented sufficient evidence to say that there is a "god" (god...there are at least a thousand different definitions/descriptors, anyhow...so which one?). I cannot say with absolute certainty that there is NOT one (or more than one), but I personally believe that there is not some kind of higher deity that cares to influence us or is even aware of our existence. Who knows? It is interesting to think about, but I find I really can't talk with anyone about the various possibilities because it's such a touchy subject.

If I have to go by a label, I'll say I'm an agnostic atheist.
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Old 11-23-2008, 07:53 AM
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Hey joinedintime...I am one of but a few here whom is a Christian and have serious reservations about aa. So much so that I spoke with my pastor regarding the "theology" taught in the rooms. Bottom line sobriety is up to us not God....good thing if one does not believe in any sort of HP.

allport...you are not alone in your views...sobriety is an inside job...don't let others run you away if you find some portion of aa to be of value to you in your sobriety.
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Old 11-23-2008, 08:53 AM
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thanks bugsy...its important not to forget the people of religion who simply don't see a personal god thing in thier sobriety (hope i'm saying that right!).

I have at least 2 friends f2f and a larger number here who have been so helpful and supportive to me that are of that belief.

Dee...glad you checked in!

And JIT....you crack me up...you are the third person this week that has been suprised at my godlessness (LMAO...cant find the smileys today)

And here I thought I hammer people with it too much!

Bam...good to see you around here again...Hope things are going a little better for you (hug)
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Old 11-23-2008, 09:07 AM
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Hugs to you Ananda...I get a kick when you call me bugsy!

Staying true to my religious teachings is very important to me...as important as my sobriety...Thanks for being here.
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Old 11-23-2008, 09:30 AM
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I get that bugs...my religion is also just as important as my soberiety...glad for us both that we never have to choose between the two (at least I don't expect so)

:ghug3
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Old 11-23-2008, 10:19 AM
  # 418 (permalink)  
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Ananda, I do recall your "godlessness" (as you put it) from a couple other posts. I was just pleasantly surprised when I jumped into a section of SR where I had never posted, let alone asked a question, and found someone I knew responding right away.



Originally Posted by Bamboozle View Post
Nah, I don't think it's a cop out. You can only go by the evidence presented to you…there are a lot of unknowns when it comes to the Universe (and beyond?) and the existence of life.....

.... It is interesting to think about, but I find I really can't talk with anyone about the various possibilities because it's such a touchy subject.

If I have to go by a label, I'll say I'm an agnostic atheist.
Bamboozle, it is interesting to think about. No doubt about that. Now that I've been sober over 4 months I'm finding many things are more interesting to think about. Looking back, when I was drunk (or in between drunks - I was mostly a binge drinker) I think I was afraid to spend too much time thinking about the heavy/core issues of life. Don't imagine I was the first person to drink to try to avoid thinking, huh.

I don't know if you realized this but your description of yourself in your post combined with your signature line makes for one interesting mind-body description. Take a look at them together:

"If I have to go by a label, I'll say I'm an agnostic atheist."
"I am a hot, steaming, stinky, goopy, bacteria-filled lump of humanity. That is all for now."


Bugsworth, thanks for confirming my thought that religious people might want to separate recovery from ..... I guess preaching is the word I'm looking for here.
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Old 11-23-2008, 10:36 AM
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joinedintime...While I found value in aa early in my sobriety the inconsistencies became more and more evident as time went on. Very little of what aa "preached" matched up to what I believed in my heart. These inconsistencies led me to leave aa and approach sobriety in a secular manner. Works for me as it has for many others. There is no right way to achieve sobriety doing what works for you is key.
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Old 11-23-2008, 12:29 PM
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Thanks for all your comments, i truly try to believe that sobriety can be achieved in many ways but the "this is the only way" message i received first time round in aa seems to be stuck somewhere in my brain, i was very vunerable the first time i went. Im trying to be true to myself and my beliefs (just stealing a bit of aa speak for my own purposes there) but there is always a little voice whispering that im not doing it right. I suppose the only way to prove to myself that there is more than one path is to keep walking my own succesfully. Hope everyone is having a nice (and sober) weekend. X
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