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Old 10-04-2008, 10:27 AM
  # 221 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by SelfSeeking View Post
Since this is secular check-in, I feel like I can safely kvetch: What is up with saying, when something horribly heart-rendingly sad and senseless happens, "Everything happens for a reason"? Is it strange that that reeeally bothers me? I guess the way I see it, is things just happens, and learn lessons from it whenever you can- life is fragile, how to help someone grieve, I can't control everything, are things I'm taking from my recent experience for example- but to say it happened for some reason?
I hear ya. It makes me want to hurl. There's too many things that it couldn't possibly apply to and it assumes a theistic reality.
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Old 10-04-2008, 10:36 AM
  # 222 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by SelfSeeking View Post
"Everything happens for a reason"

That bothers me, too...if someone keeps on me with that, I like to say this in response:

"Sure! It's called cause and effect."
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Old 10-04-2008, 11:02 AM
  # 223 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by ananda
DK...so quiet
Originally Posted by Bamboozle
Hello, DK...how goes it?
I'm kinda back in the ol' slump... not drinkin' like an AA story, a few a day with a little pot. It's not killing me, but it certainly deadens me a bit... I'll probably get sick of it and try being sober again. I seem to go in cycles, as neither is really satisfying. I hope you gals (guys) don't mind me hangin' around. Maybe if I hang out at a saloon long enough, eventually I'll get my hair styled?
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Old 10-04-2008, 11:14 AM
  # 224 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by doorknob View Post
I hope you gals (guys) don't mind me hangin' around.

DK....of course we don't mind. Duh! What would the secular realm be like without your input? You are a voice of reason here and are much appreciated.
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Old 10-04-2008, 11:37 AM
  # 225 (permalink)  
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keep hanging around and you will get there DK...glad things aren't too bad...

Bam you hit it on the head....I do believe everything happens for a reason the law of cause and effect..it is my version of an HP....but i don't care for it being tossed out lightly or with the sort of undertones it has.

the good side of it is to help me realize that things don't happen in a vacum and how I can look to see if there is some part of the cause i can make changes on in the future.

I agree that people die forr a reason etc. but how does that help me or anyone in thier pain?

Well i guess if you believe in god as sorta someone manipulating the world we live in toward a good end...that may have some merit. So it is apropriete for many people. When people say that to me, i try to rememer that it makes sense within their world view and that what they are doing is expressing their compasion in the way that works for them or that they have been taught.


I find a heart felt I'm so sorry and an offer of any help i need if it is a real offer to be much more helpful to me. And a hug if i know you well.

SS (HUG)
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Old 10-04-2008, 01:05 PM
  # 226 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by DK
I hope you gals (guys) don't mind me hangin' around.
I don't mind either. It sounds like to me that your practicing harm reduction. That's a valid recover approach in my book. Now that I think about it, ambiguity or self-medication is okay with me too. Anything past denial is a start to recovery. I mean, when someone is past one of the biggest symptoms of active addiction (denial and deceit) they have opened themselves up to the possibility of recovery as a desirable state of being.

Anyhoo, I glad your staying around.

Originally Posted by SelfSeeking
Everything happens for a reason
Yep... action and reaction, cause and effect, that's how I see it too.

Originally Posted by Ananda
i try to rememer that it makes sense within their world view and that what they are doing is expressing their compasion in the way that works for them or that they have been taught.
That's a good way to look at it.
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Old 10-04-2008, 08:25 PM
  # 227 (permalink)  
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DK, luckily for you, I am in a most expansive mood and am granting you permission to continue to post on this site, despite your eggregious failure to toe the line of any particular recovery program. My natural inclination to deny you said permission was ameliorated by the humble attitude you displayed in your request.

I've decided the health field is too hard, I'm gonna be an insurance claims adjuster instead. Just practicing.
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Old 10-04-2008, 10:01 PM
  # 228 (permalink)  
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jeeez selfseeking! I had to read that post 4 times to get the joke..thought maybe you had gone looney on us

And what the F does ameliorated mean?????
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Old 10-05-2008, 05:46 AM
  # 229 (permalink)  
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lol! I'm not sure if I spelled it right... it's like...improved?

(((doorknob))) I hope the joke got across! (((Ananada))) No, they haven't broken me yet, still sane and sober.
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Old 10-05-2008, 06:05 AM
  # 230 (permalink)  
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Shunryi Suzuki was once asked why there was so much suffering. He replied, "No reason."

Humans try to hard to attribute the good/bad of life to "something". Stuff happens, that's all. The only thing we can control is our action and thoughts. If we choose to practice cultivating actions and thoughts that benefit instead of hurt, the result (karma) will manifest.

1. All that we are is the result of what we have thought: it is founded on our thoughts, it is made up of our thoughts. If a man speaks or acts with an evil thought, pain follows him, as the wheel follows the foot of the ox that draws the carriage.

2. All that we are is the result of what we have thought: it is founded on our thoughts, it is made up of our thoughts. If a man speaks or acts with a pure thought, happiness follows him, like a shadow that never leaves him.

Dhammapada
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Old 10-05-2008, 06:06 AM
  # 231 (permalink)  
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Keep posting DK. There is much love and affection for you here.
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Old 10-05-2008, 06:18 AM
  # 232 (permalink)  
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Hello, everyone.


Well, I drank last night. (Please don't smack me)


I'm okay, though. I've been doing a lot of thinking. I know I have a problem, that's for sure...but I've been putting unrealistic expectations on myself. Basically, I'm psyching myself out and stressing out way too much. The pressure I put on myself to stay sober no matter what is unreasonable right now...it's not helping me.

This does not mean that I'm hanging up my shoes/throwing in the towel...far from it. Again, as I always find to be true in life, I need to stop worrying about how others best approach this and worry about how I will do it instead.

I'm not beating myself up.

I do not consider this failure.

Rather, this a part of the journey and I refuse to feel badly about what I did. It's a part of who I am, and if I'm going to learn to master it, I have to be able to fully accept and understand it...and I must be patient and remain calm. Peace.
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Old 10-05-2008, 06:41 AM
  # 233 (permalink)  
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Hey Bam. Good idea not to beat yourself up about it and to be patient. Just stay connected. Reaching out to others and not isolating will be helpful.
:ghug3
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Old 10-05-2008, 07:25 AM
  # 234 (permalink)  
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Hi, Bam... I had a thought yesterday that might be helpful to you. Obviously I'm a mess right now, but like you, am working on it I felt so much better after telling those important people about my sobriety etc., and I realized that while I was holding that secret and all the fear that went with it, nothing else could come in. When I let it go, I had room for other things... I can work on my paper and begin to problem-solve for all the crap going on. When I let go of drinking, other stuff had to come in, and replace drinking in my life. When I find positive things to let it, I feel better and better. When negative things come in, including fear of drinking again, despair, anger, I start thinking, this does not feel better than drinking. My mind goes alcohol-hunting until I let the despair and fear and anger go, and do something like call a loved one, go to a meeting, read a funny book... anything. Or at least call my doctor and say, "I am not feeling right, we need to adjust my meds!" Which is what I tried to do on Friday, but she never got back to me. *sigh* Whatever, not the point. I don't mean to oversimplify whatever's going on with you... just thought this might be helpful, because I was a hair away from drinking a couple days ago, and trying to figure out exactly why I didn't!

I thought for a second maybe it's because I'm not a real alcoholic. But then I started to crave like a fiend, and my sponsor reminded me of the liver inflammation incident and other tales, and I revisited Step One.
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Old 10-05-2008, 07:43 AM
  # 235 (permalink)  
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Liver inflammation incident? Do tell if it does not bother you to share...If you don't want to talk about it, of course that's fine.


The one thing that scares me the most about this is my physical health...I can deal with the ups and downs of changing my behavior over time...but I wonder...can my body wait that long? Just thinking out loud here...

I'm really surprised I didn't have any heart palpitations this time around...usually they happen really badly when I'm sobering up. My right side hurts a little, but it could be a pulled muscle or any number of things.

I've been super paranoid this year...it's been a good reason to stay stopped (at least for a while).

I feel like I don’t know anything anymore. I'm not hopeless...I can't put what it is I'm feeling properly into words. I don't know if there is any way for me to describe it.
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Old 10-05-2008, 07:50 AM
  # 236 (permalink)  
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Oh yeah...something else that's bothering me. I've gained about 10 pounds in the past 3-4 weeks because I've been binging on food (because I couldn't drink). I was literally eating myself to death. I couldn't stop. Gaining weight that fast is NOT good. That was a big reason I caved last night. Desperation to calm the mind...I had to do something.

I can't post about this anywhere else because I don't want to listen to camp that says, "Oh, you're just making excuses for yourself." Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion, but that's the kind of crap I don't need to hear right now. Tough love has never worked for me and it never will. It makes me head in the opposite direction...

Should I get my jaw wired shut?
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Old 10-05-2008, 08:04 AM
  # 237 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Bamboozle View Post
Liver inflammation incident? Do tell if it does not bother you to share...If you don't want to talk about it, of course that's fine.


The one thing that scares me the most about this is my physical health...I can deal with the ups and downs of changing my behavior over time...but I wonder...can my body wait that long? Just thinking out loud here...
I've posted about it before... It doesn't bother me to talk about it, now that I am no longer putting myself at risk for it to happen again This was not an "official" diagnosis, but one of my friends is a doc. The day after a major binge my hangover started "normal" but then took on a life of its own. I couldn't keep water down, I was vomiting several times an hour and it seemed to just get worse and worse. I even took a crushed-up valium to try to stop the puking but it didn't work. I was aware of a throbbing dull ache in my upper right abdomen... right over my liver. My friend did an abdominal exam and I had signs of either acute hepatitis or pancreatitis. We considered going to the hospital but decided to do 'watchful waiting' at home. Probably stupid but we absolutely did not want to go to the hospital and have them think I had some sort of drinking problem! Because I didn't. Ha. So I don't have the blood test results to *prove* it, but my friend strongly believes it was acute alcoholic hepatitis. Don't ask me why he was then so hard to later convince that I AM an alcoholic! I think because I wasn't 50, turning yellow, and demented, which is what the alcoholics look like that he treats all the time.

The next day I could hold down water. The day after that I decided I was "better enough" and got drunk again. It was almost four months later, full of drinking and hangovers and dropped responsibilites and anxiously palpating my own liver and taking milk thistle and vit. B, before I realized I was killing myself and found this site, and then AA. So that's the whole story.
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Old 10-05-2008, 08:05 AM
  # 238 (permalink)  
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Bam...just keep posting we are all here for you :ghug

This thread has just completely wowed me this morning! Zendust..thanks for reminding me of the teachings. SS...my god you are an inspiration. Bam...you are so honest and open! DK...keep talking you are a great part of this community.

Bam I only had slight liver problems (swelling)..but i can tell you that when i returned to drinking after 7 years sober it was only a matter of months before i began to have health issues that at the time i thought were seperate, but now know were a direct restult of the drinking. Pancreatitis, diabetic problems, huge weight gain rapidly.

What we expereince is often not something that can really be incompassed in words...but we do the best we can.

You are right Bam...the hamer to the head won't get you sober or keep you sober. I too suffer from that inability to get better from tough love! I'm glad you are comfortable sharing here.

As zendust said...lets all stay connected!!!! :ghug
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Old 10-05-2008, 08:08 AM
  # 239 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Bamboozle View Post
Oh yeah...something else that's bothering me. I've gained about 10 pounds in the past 3-4 weeks because I've been binging on food (because I couldn't drink). I was literally eating myself to death. I couldn't stop. Gaining weight that fast is NOT good. That was a big reason I caved last night. Desperation to calm the mind...I had to do something.
Aw, Bam. Don't go on the alcoholic diet. You are in no way helping your body by trading out food calories for alcohol calories.

I used to think that drinking calmed me down, too. It did; just like Haldol "calms you down". It knocks your mind out of commission. Calm is too positive a word for numbness, in my book. But you're right... you need to do _something_. The status quo is not working for you. So the question is, what next?
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Old 10-05-2008, 08:39 AM
  # 240 (permalink)  
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Thank you zendust, SS, and ananda.


I honestly don't know what's next. I know I need professional help...obviously I have very poor coping skills...but I need money for that. The way things are where I live, all the free care is being used up by many poor folks. I know, find a sliding scale place...I really need to find solid employment first.

I feel like I can't be around people for right now. That's one of many reasons I quit my job. It really does take a lot of energy for me to deal with humanity. That's why I mostly keep to myself, whether I'm okay or not.

I want to run away. I know I cannot...but a change of scenery would be nice.

I'm sorry I'm posting so much, people.
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