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Old 05-01-2007, 04:24 PM
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Not all better, getting better
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We're all here for the same reasons

I really enjoy this forum... when it's working well. Too often it seems to fall into arguments about who's way is the best, 12-step, secular, god, no god, etc. When it comes right down to it, we all come to this site for the same reason. We have a problem that we need help with. Every person is different, and I believe every person's road to recovery is unique as well.

I know one thing I have a tendency to do is to overcomplicate things. In it's most basic form, sobriety is really not that tough to achieve, just don't injest intoxicating substances. I know we could get into a discussion over whether that is "true" sobriety or just abstinance, but again, that is complicating things, at least for me. What I need to do is NOT USE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. If going to NA meetings helps, good. If contributing online helps, good. If attending online meetings with Lifering of SMART helps, good. Or perhaps it's just finding the right mix of all of them. All that really matters it that I don't use, no matter what.

I guess my point is, if I really have one, that instead of debating what works best, who's program is best, etc. Lets just take anything helpful from any program, and make it work for us! I really don't care if I'm "working the program of NA (or SMART or Lifering)" correctly, I just need to find what works for me. Thanks for listening guys.
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Old 05-01-2007, 06:02 PM
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You're right, Tyler, there's a lot of good programs out there all coming down to the same thing, don't use.

I do find that learning about these and applying what seems to work well for me has helped me maintain my sobriety. After all, every one of these programs has worked for someone, and trying them or at least researching them cannot be a bad thing. I find that any program can be used in conjunction with another with no problem. Many people here do just that.

Here's hoping that everyone finds their true path to recovery.

Keep well

Ron
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Old 05-01-2007, 08:27 PM
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Hi Tyler,

Variety is the spice of life.

I guess I found this forum far more interesting when it was... far more interesting. lol! I agree with every single word you said, man. I just gravitate towards lively, stimulating discussions. What we had going very briefly was just that, though controversial to the hilt!

I love controversy!

It keeps me awake!

A recovery forum is not the right place for it, however. I certainly understand Morning Glory's petition to us all in that regard. I am left wondering though, what there is left to discuss. The forum is quiet probably because there is not a whole lost to discuss in the realm of secular recovery per se.

This post is no way a critique. I'm just thinking aloud, as it were. I hope all are doing as splendidly as I am these days.

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Old 05-01-2007, 09:12 PM
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Please continue to post. Just try to stay away from offending others. We have members of faith on this forum practicing secular recovery. We have members of AA on the forum practicing secular recovery.

I think you can have lively discussions without discrediting other beliefs or recovery methods. Discussing that you don't believe in God and how you approach recovery and life without faith is very different than saying something like all those who believe in God are uneducated. See the difference?
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Old 05-01-2007, 10:02 PM
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Question

Thanks for trying to clarify.

Originally Posted by Morning Glory View Post
We have members of faith on this forum practicing secular recovery. We have members of AA on the forum practicing secular recovery.
Really? That seems a strange marriage! In fact, it seems a non sequitur. A member of AA who practices secular recovery? I... guess so. People of faith who do not invoke God's help in their recovery?? You lost me.

Originally Posted by Morning Glory View Post
I think you can have lively discussions without discrediting other beliefs or recovery methods. Discussing that you don't believe in God and how you approach recovery and life without faith is very different than saying something like all those who believe in God are uneducated. See the difference?
Oh, yes I sure do. When did anyone come out and denigrate another member on here, though? I don't recall that happening. Not just the calling people uneducated--I don't recall seeing any personal remarks like that in the discussions I took part in.

General opining such as "Faith and reason are forever irreconcilabe" is just that, stating an opinion. It is not mocking or discrediting. (At least I didn't think so: It simply states that because faith is blind acceptance, it is fundamentally different from any worldview based upon reason, which entails asking questions and challenging established notions.)

Hey, good morning.
Glory.


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Old 05-01-2007, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Ten Chips Down View Post
Really? That seems a strange marriage! In fact, it seems a non sequitur. A member of AA who practices secular recovery? I... guess so. People of faith who do not invoke God's help in their recovery?? You lost me.
Read some of Alera's posts... and my first email buddy from LifeRing was religious but felt it had nothing to do with her recovery. We never discussed religion because it just wasn't relevant. Of course, I fell in love with her and had my heart broken, but that's another story...

Blake and Paulmh both use the 12-Step program without any beliefs in divine intervention. There's a thread or two here on that topic.

I could probably use one of several secular adaptations of the Steps, but I doubt I will ever really feel comfortable at traditional 12-Step meetings.

Oh, yes I sure do. When did anyone come out and denigrate another member on here, though? I don't recall that happening. Not just the calling people uneducated--I don't recall seeing any personal remarks like that in the discussions I took part in.

General opining such as "Faith and reason are forever irreconcilabe" is just that, stating an opinion. It is not mocking or discrediting. (At least I didn't think so: It simply states that because faith is blind acceptance, it is fundamentally different from any worldview based upon reason, which entails asking questions and challenging established notions.)
Yep.

DK
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Old 05-01-2007, 11:23 PM
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calling people uneducated
I just used that as an example Ten. It isn't anything I heard here. I heard it on one of the Richard Dawkins videos that was posted here.
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Old 05-02-2007, 12:50 AM
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DON'T DRINK OR USE NO MATTER WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

KEEP IT SIMPLE....

This is how I have stayed clean and sober for almost a year....

Love,

:

Sherry
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Old 05-02-2007, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Ten Chips Down View Post
Thanks for trying to clarify.



Really? That seems a strange marriage! In fact, it seems a non sequitur. A member of AA who practices secular recovery? I... guess so. People of faith who do not invoke God's help in their recovery?? You lost me.

Hi Ten. I never have hidden the fact I'm religious. I also do not find any need for my HP to be involved as my recovery method. None at all. Does that mean I do not ask for my HP's help in time of need? Of course not. But I know what works and I will sure be applying those tools from SMART first.
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Old 05-02-2007, 12:32 PM
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I found this posted by Tyler in 2005 and I can't say it any better than this.


"We welcome people of all faiths and none. You get to keep whatever religious beliefs you have, and you are under no pressure to acquire any if you don't. Neither religion nor anti-religion normally come up in meeting discussion. Participants' spiritual or religious beliefs or lack thereof remain private."

The other question I am often asked is, "Is this group "anti-God or anti-12step?" I guess the best way I can answer this is that it is not "anti" anything, except perhaps anti-drug!! Many, if not most, of the people who attend the group, attend or have attended 12-step recovery meetings, myself included. It is simply a different approach to the same thing, staying clean and sober.
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Old 05-02-2007, 02:55 PM
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Have any of you ever heard the expression:

"Picking the fly-**** out of the pepper"?

If not, think about it a while.
If so, think about it a while.

Tyler? Great post!
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Old 05-02-2007, 04:09 PM
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"Here's hoping that everyone finds their true path to recovery"

Is right.
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Old 05-02-2007, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Morning Glory View Post
I found this posted by Tyler in 2005 and I can't say it any better than this.
I believe those quotes are from LifeRing's FAQ's page.

Originally Posted by tyler View Post
I really enjoy this forum... when it's working well. Too often it seems to fall into arguments about who's way is the best, 12-step, secular, god, no god, etc.
If the secularity of this forum was respected and adhered to in the same manner as LifeRing describes, there would never be anything to argue or debate, atleast in the area of God/religion/spirituality.
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Old 05-02-2007, 04:25 PM
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I think you are right DK. I think the post was from when I was trying to host an "alternatives" meeting here. I used LifeRing meeting guidelines to set up the paramaters of the "meeting".

When I read MG's post, I thought, "That's funny, I don't remember writing that!!" Of course drugs will do that to your memory. My theripist informed me that I told him the same story 3 different times since I've started seeing him about 2 months ago!!

Doesn't really matter who said it, they are good words to live by.

BTW, how you doin' Paul?? I know you've been having your struggles, as I have. Glad to see you still posting at least.

Day 2 today, but I'm not counting!!
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