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Sponsors in AA?

Old 02-02-2007, 02:26 PM
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Sponsors in AA?

Hi

Has anyone here had a Sponsor in AA? I had one for a minute but I fired him because he could not open his mind to accept sobriety without HP. I did not find too many people that was much better than him.

I think I have been better off without one if it means fighting over every 12 Step rule I choose not to use as a secular person.

AB
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Old 02-02-2007, 02:33 PM
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Hmmm, not sure what the politically correct answer is here, Abbadun.

I've had three sponsors in under two years, and we all believed in a higher power. Without that, I can't really see a way of practicing the 12 Steps. I also don't see a way to work the program without a sponsor.

I'm sure you'll eventually find a sponsor that has what you want, but how will you "come to believe" if you have nothing at all to believe in? How about a doorknob as is sometimes suggested?

I'll be interested to hear what others have to say. Interesting topic!
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Old 02-02-2007, 02:44 PM
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Old 02-02-2007, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by doorknob View Post

BWWAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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Old 02-02-2007, 04:37 PM
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Hi Astro

I do not believe in doorknobs either!! no offense Doorknob

Really I am now glad that I do not have a sponsor, I focus 100% of my AA activity on staying sober which I think is the best policy. For every person I see who claims HP keeps them sober, I see 7 or more crushed by addiction despite their HP.

I do not know the exact percentage but the basic fact is 7 out of 10 addicted people are never going to be sober no matter what they use.
This percentage may even be higher.

I work in the accounting office of a Rehab, I see the numbers.

What I believe is that people working together can do what they can not do alone.

AB


Originally Posted by Astro View Post
Hmmm, not sure what the politically correct answer is here, Abbadun.

I've had three sponsors in under two years, and we all believed in a higher power. Without that, I can't really see a way of practicing the 12 Steps. I also don't see a way to work the program without a sponsor.

I'm sure you'll eventually find a sponsor that has what you want, but how will you "come to believe" if you have nothing at all to believe in? How about a doorknob as is sometimes suggested?

I'll be interested to hear what others have to say. Interesting topic!
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Old 02-02-2007, 04:45 PM
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Hi AB,
If you remember, I posted on the thread about Athiests in AA about my experience with sponsoring a man who is an athiest. Although I'm not an athiest, it was a positive experience for both of us.

It's funny, that although I am a "God guy," for lack of a better term, I see many who are thiests are just as closed minded as they say the athiests are.

A closed mind is a sure obstacle to growth, no matter what a person's beliefs.
Jim
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Old 02-02-2007, 08:51 PM
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AB ~ I had a sponsor many years ago when I first wanted to get clean. I had to interview a few people before I found one that could do the job. Some of the prospective sponsors had some strange ideas about how to achieve and maintain sobriety. But one fellow made some sense to me, he said the only requirement for sobriety was: put the plug in the jug. The rest will come naturally. Go to meetings and join in the fellowship and you will do just fine. He was right. But you have to watch out, some people who sponsor others, have very dangerous ideas about how to get and stay clean.

Astro ~ all I needed was: “come to believe” in my own innate ability to get and stay clean. A much simpler process than a lot of the other systems used today

keep an open mind but not so open that your brains fall out.

Z
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Old 02-02-2007, 09:32 PM
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Hi Jim

I see theists and Atheists that instead of practicing their beliefs rather find faults with the other groups.

I try to keep my criticism of AA to just about anti-Atheist statements (especially those that have nothing to do with addiction) and not criticize AA's pro-HP statements.

I am sure there are a lot of good HP people out there that could sponsor Atheist, if they can accept that HP is not prerequisite for sobriety and never was. There are too many secular sober people out there for this statement not to be true.

AB



Originally Posted by jimhere View Post
Hi AB,
If you remember, I posted on the thread about Athiests in AA about my experience with sponsoring a man who is an athiest. Although I'm not an athiest, it was a positive experience for both of us.

It's funny, that although I am a "God guy," for lack of a better term, I see many who are thiests are just as closed minded as they say the athiests are.

A closed mind is a sure obstacle to growth, no matter what a person's beliefs.
Jim
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Old 02-02-2007, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by doorknob View Post


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Old 02-02-2007, 09:40 PM
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Hi Zencat

I always say that the fellowship helps keeps me sober. I think of the clients at the rehab as the Forrest Gumps of Sobriety. They teach sobriety even though most of them will not find sobriety, I see proof of that daily when I read the local Police Blotter in the Newspaper.

AB


Originally Posted by zencat View Post
AB ~ I had a sponsor many years ago when I first wanted to get clean. I had to interview a few people before I found one that could do the job. Some of the prospective sponsors had some strange ideas about how to achieve and maintain sobriety. But one fellow made some sense to me, he said the only requirement for sobriety was: put the plug in the jug. The rest will come naturally. Go to meetings and join in the fellowship and you will do just fine. He was right. But you have to watch out, some people who sponsor others, have very dangerous ideas about how to get and stay clean.

Astro ~ all I needed was: “come to believe” in my own innate ability to get and stay clean. A much simpler process than a lot of the other systems used today

keep an open mind but not so open that your brains fall out.

Z
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Old 02-03-2007, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Abbadun View Post
I do not know the exact percentage but the basic fact is 7 out of 10 addicted people are never going to be sober no matter what they use.
This percentage may even be higher.
I've heard and believe those percentages, and I'm perfectly content with being part of the 3% who do manage to stay sober. Having an HP and a sponsor is just what works for me, not necessarily for anyone else.
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Old 02-03-2007, 03:41 PM
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Hi Astro

I think that is what we are all are looking for, people that that respect and support our journey of staying sober, that is why I am so down on any barrier that impedes or hurts people trying to stay sober.

AB

Originally Posted by Astro View Post
I've heard and believe those percentages, and I'm perfectly content with being part of the 3% who do manage to stay sober. Having an HP and a sponsor is just what works for me, not necessarily for anyone else.
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Old 02-03-2007, 05:46 PM
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Hi AB

The meetings of AA can be of some use to me as a secular person. True, there can be intolerance to beliefs that challenge their AA “truths”. I have been rebuffed in meetings when I offer “suggestions” that run counter to AA BB “suggestions”. Strange how “suggestions” appear to work only one way. Their way.

Having ones beliefs acknowledged as valid with out prejudice can open up useful dialog. Nothing like the free exchange of ideas to invigorate the mind and there is nothing more harmful than censorship and suppression to close the mind. The twisted use of “keep an open mind” by some is an insult to true free expression.

Z.
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Old 02-03-2007, 09:56 PM
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Hi

I like speaker meetings and I like speakers that are not too polished in the lingo. I do not want to hear mere parroting of the the information in the books, but for real interpretations.

Of course you end up listening to lots of people who are simply not good public speakers, but even they have real individual suggestions to offer not just the standard "recipes" from the texts.

AB


Originally Posted by zencat View Post
Hi AB

The meetings of AA can be of some use to me as a secular person. True, there can be intolerance to beliefs that challenge their AA “truths”. I have been rebuffed in meetings when I offer “suggestions” that run counter to AA BB “suggestions”. Strange how “suggestions” appear to work only one way. Their way.

Having ones beliefs acknowledged as valid with out prejudice can open up useful dialog. Nothing like the free exchange of ideas to invigorate the mind and there is nothing more harmful than censorship and suppression to close the mind. The twisted use of “keep an open mind” by some is an insult to true free expression.

Z.
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Old 02-04-2007, 04:41 AM
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Hmmm....seems to me that,
To ask a person in AA,
who clearly uses a HP in his/her recovery,
to sponsor you WITHOUT the use of a HP
is akin to asking a Jew to believe in Jesus as the Christ!
(Greek for savior, not a last name.)
Ain't gonna happen too soon.
And it's somewhat of an insult to expect them to give up THEIR beliefs to fit YOUR needs!

They belong to an organization that has a point of view.
If you don't believe in it, don't go!
Pretty simple to me.

Or, alternatively, start a program yourself.
This IS still a free country.
(If you're in the USA anyway.)

Shalom!
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Old 02-04-2007, 06:16 AM
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Hi HT

Do you think that I could sponsor a Christian? I do not believe but I do know that would mean a lot to my sponsee. I could respect his beliefs, heck I often lead my group in the Lord's Prayer. I have no problems with religious rituals. A religious person should have no problem talking recovery without religion unless they inject religion in everything in their life.

They are not giving up their beliefs, they belong to a organization that advertises that the only requirement for membership is a honest desire to stop drinking and that the program respects the beliefs and opinions of others and to take what you need and leave the rest.

Are these promises or lies? Yes I am hard on AA, but I believe in truth in advertising and/or statements.

AB


Originally Posted by historyteach View Post
Hmmm....seems to me that,
To ask a person in AA,
who clearly uses a HP in his/her recovery,
to sponsor you WITHOUT the use of a HP
is akin to asking a Jew to believe in Jesus as the Christ!
(Greek for savior, not a last name.)
Ain't gonna happen too soon.
And it's somewhat of an insult to expect them to give up THEIR beliefs to fit YOUR needs!

They belong to an organization that has a point of view.
If you don't believe in it, don't go!
Pretty simple to me.

Or, alternatively, start a program yourself.
This IS still a free country.
(If you're in the USA anyway.)

Shalom!
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Old 02-09-2007, 08:03 PM
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Hi Abbadun...Is there anything those 30% that are recovering are doing that stands out. Is harm reduction seen as a viable alternative in the professional community for the 70% who can not totally abstain ? Thanks,mjs
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Old 02-09-2007, 08:41 PM
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Hi

I do not know and I think than if most people went to a meeting a day they could stay sober, but I wonder if that is real sobriety.

For sober people that go to a couple of meetings or less a week, I do not know exactly what keeps them sober.

For me it is reminders that I can not drink and reminders of the stupid things we do and the insanity.

AB


Originally Posted by mjs View Post
Hi Abbadun...Is there anything those 30% that are recovering are doing that stands out. Is harm reduction seen as a viable alternative in the professional community for the 70% who can not totally abstain ? Thanks,mjs
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Old 02-10-2007, 01:12 AM
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hi AB...how does the professional community feel about harm reduction for the 70% that can not maintain total abstininse?
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Old 02-10-2007, 01:37 AM
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Logically different, AB;
Just because an apple is a fruit,
it doesn't make all fruit apples.

I said this:
To ask a person in AA,
[BOLD]who clearly uses a HP [/BOLD]in his/her recovery,
to sponsor you WITHOUT the use of a HP
is akin to asking a Jew to believe in Jesus as the Christ!
I stand by my statement.

Find someone who doesn't use a HP and you're all set.
And if you believe all advertisements are true, you're in for a very frustrating life.
I'm not going to spend any more time argueing. As I said, it's a free country. If you don't like what's there, start your own organization. A program that has been around for 70+ years is not going to change for you. That's just called LIFE.
And I still do wish you well.

Shalom!
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