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Old 10-08-2006, 07:19 PM
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questions--opinions from you guys

hi
i am not sure what to think about god --i can really drive myself in circles--i do think there is something out there--im not sure what it is--how can i--im not dead--but--im wondering -ok--the twelve steps are out of the bible--and many other books use this thing things to get somewhere in your life--why do you think this workss-pleeeease, i am not judging you guys--rhis is not why im asking --im just wondering your thoughts on things I'M wondering about--lol--thanks!
Laura
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Old 10-09-2006, 02:30 PM
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Hi Laura,

I don't understand your question.

Are you asking how the secular approach to recovery works?

If you're asking about God I can move your thread to the spirituality forum.
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Old 10-09-2006, 03:29 PM
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Hi MG,

I think what Laura is asking is, if 'God' doesn't exist, then why do 12-Step programs help people?

Hi Laura,

That's a good question. I think there are several reasons. Here they are, in no particular order:

1. Peer support - Spending time with other people trying to stay sober, reinforces and supports our own desire to stay sober, in the same way that hanging out with drinkers encourages drinking. This is what SR is all about, IMO.

2. The belief (in 'God') itself - Believing that some force is helping or giving one the ability to do something that they don't believe they are capable of, can give a person confidence to achieve that goal or task. It's like when a kid is given a good luck charm, and are told that it has magical powers, when in reality, it is an ordinary object. It's essentially a placebo effect, but it only works if you believe.

3. Practical aspects of the program - There are plenty of nut and bolt ideas and suggestions in the program that can be helpful, even if divine intervention is not a reality. Secular interpretations of the Steps demonstrate this well.

Anywho... that's my theory, in a nutshell.
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Old 10-10-2006, 06:49 PM
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Laura you are having lots of contradicting advice at the moment ....take what you can use and diump what you can't....then on follow what you're told, from the inside.
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Old 10-11-2006, 01:33 AM
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Laura, there are secular programs available too. I am a man of faith, but also very thinking and rational. Personally I prefer to keep my spirituality and my recovery seperate. Yes, for me they do support each other, but the secular recovery program seems to just click with my brain. I prefer something based on science, logic and reason when it comes to my recovery... Just my .02

Hang loose, Doc.
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Old 10-11-2006, 06:12 AM
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I'm am comforted by giving up. I gave up thinking about gods and whatnot. I know that I'm way too stupid to grasp such things. I'm just right here, right now, and whatever.
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Old 10-11-2006, 08:56 AM
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I'm am comforted by giving up. I gave up thinking about gods and whatnot. I know that I'm way too stupid to grasp such things. I'm just right here, right now, and whatever.
That's it. I got exhausted with all the things I had opinions on.
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Old 10-12-2006, 04:16 AM
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It is easier for me to be an idiot.

When I think too much it makes my head hurt.

Not much I can do about things.

World is gonna spin regardless....and there will be suffering, happiness, death, birth, destruction....all that and whatnot.

mmmmhhhhhhmmmmmm, I reckon

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Old 10-12-2006, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by paulmh
That's it. I got exhausted with all the things I had opinions on.
Just curious then... are you saying you are agnostic?
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Old 10-12-2006, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by windysan
It is easier for me to be an idiot.
Dang it Windy! Stop calling yourself an idiot!!

idiot
n.
  1. A foolish or stupid person.
  2. A person of profound mental retardation having a mental age below three years and generally being unable to learn connected speech or guard against common dangers. The term belongs to a classification system no longer in use and is now considered offensive.
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Old 10-12-2006, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by doorknob
Dang it Windy! Stop calling yourself an idiot!!

I'm sorry.

I'm a low-functioning idiot.
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Old 10-12-2006, 12:23 PM
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Aaaah well (I surrender lol)... you're a good guy Windy!

Day 2 of ixnay on the eerbay,

Knob
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Old 10-12-2006, 12:39 PM
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Thumbs up

Originally Posted by windysan
I'm sorry.

I'm a low-functioning idiot.

Except for always referring to yourself as being an idiot I have found your posts to be wry and completely right on! So, I agree. Stop with the idiot stuff already!!!

((( windysan)) (( paulmh)) I understand what you're talking about.. It doesn't matter to me whether or not there's a god or whether or not there isn't any external force that guides me. I also get exhausted with my opinions and choose to just "be". Becoming a better woman, wife, friend has had it's challenges. I think I've used every bit of information I've come across that, for me, has had that ring of truth to it.

A lot of AA has been good for me. A lot of it has been tiresome. A lot of times I left meetings wanting a drink instead of not. I'm still glad I did the 12 Steps. Because of my awesome sponsor my experience with AA was exactly what I needed to wake up and smell the roses and finally make good choices for myself. Before that experience I was drowning in a sea of victimization and I needed someone to point that out in a "no doubt about it" black and white fashion.
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Old 10-12-2006, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by doorknob
Aaaah well (I surrender lol)... you're a good guy Windy!

Day 2 of ixnay on the eerbay,

Knob

good job with the eerbay. better eat a loaf of bread per day so you can keep your weight up.
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Old 10-12-2006, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by doorknob
Day 2 of ixnay on the eerbay,

Knob
Not there yet myself, but keeping a good thought for you Paul.
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Old 10-12-2006, 04:11 PM
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Onay indingdray orya ugdrays erehay, aday ixsay ineyay... Anghay inya erethey eepspay!

Hang loose, Doc.
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Old 10-12-2006, 05:29 PM
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Good to see ya, Tyler!

Way to go, Doc!
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Old 10-13-2006, 07:14 AM
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Windy, I agree with the others.
Stop calling yourself names.
You don't deserve them, and if you continue to vocalize that belief, you'll begin to believe it for real. :andy:

I enjoyed reading your share on the other post. It was the first I learned about "you."
And it clearly showed you NOT to be an idiot! :tongue2:

I'm enjoying this thread, but, I missed a bit of Doc's pig latin post... :<(

Shalom!
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Old 10-13-2006, 07:26 AM
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Michski said:

It doesn't matter to me whether or not there's a god or whether or not there isn't any external force that guides me. I also get exhausted with my opinions and choose to just "be". Becoming a better woman, wife, friend has had it's challenges. I think I've used every bit of information I've come across that, for me, has had that ring of truth to it.

A lot of AA has been good for me. A lot of it has been tiresome. A lot of times I left meetings wanting a drink instead of not. I'm still glad I did the 12 Steps. Because of my awesome sponsor my experience with AA was exactly what I needed to wake up and smell the roses and finally make good choices for myself. Before that experience I was drowning in a sea of victimization and I needed someone to point that out in a "no doubt about it" black and white fashion.
Yup, me too. Except perhaps for leaving meetings wanting a drink - yet..

And Paul, as for your question about whether or not I'm an agnostic - yes I am, as it happens. But the really big breakthrough for me was not from atheist to agnostic, or agnostic to believer. It was just from thinking that it mattered what I believed, to realising that, in the great scheme of things, it doesn't matter a jot.
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Old 10-13-2006, 02:11 PM
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I haven't began working on the steps, but I plan on it. I'm an atheist myself, but my concept of God is something personal that I want to work out for myself. Whether I can interpret God as my own higher self, or my AA group, or my family & friends, or the collective power of all of those combined that wish to see me recover, I can tailor it to work for *me*. That's how I'm going into it, anyway.

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