Atheist, humanist...
Big Idiot Man Child
Join Date: May 2004
Location: La
Posts: 5,664
Originally Posted by doorknob
I always believed that one couldn't get addicted to hallucinogens due to the inablility to trip consecutive days without multiplying the dose. I've certainly done my share. More acid than shrooms though. It's been about 6 years since I've touched anything in that category. I'm not sure I could handle it anymore...
i'm with you. my heart would prolly explode. i really don't need them anymore...i can just think real hard and break on through.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 9
hi everyone
I am looking to find friends, who, like me are secular humanists, atheist and recovering. I don't have the abilitiy to be on the forums much, though I really like this one. If there are like minded people who would like to exchange emails or PM's please feel free to PM and introduce yourself.
Thanks
Mike
I am looking to find friends, who, like me are secular humanists, atheist and recovering. I don't have the abilitiy to be on the forums much, though I really like this one. If there are like minded people who would like to exchange emails or PM's please feel free to PM and introduce yourself.
Thanks
Mike
Reach Out and Touch Faith
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: On a Sailboat
Posts: 3,871
Welcome Mike. Do you mean secular humanist in terms of religion or political ideology?
I ask because I consider myself a secular humanist who happens to be religious.
I meet all these criteria yet am Roman Catholic:
* Need to test beliefs - A conviction that dogmas, ideologies and traditions, whether religious, political or social, must be weighed and tested by each individual and not simply accepted on faith.
* Reason, evidence, scientific method - Commitment to the use of critical reason, factual evidence, and scientific methods of inquiry, rather than faith and mysticism, in seeking solutions to human problems and answers to important human questions.
* Fulfillment, growth, creativity - A primary concern with fulfillment, growth, and creativity for both the individual and humankind in general.
* Search for truth - A constant search for objective truth, with the understanding that new knowledge and experience constantly alter our imperfect perception of it.
* This life - A concern for this life and a commitment to making it meaningful through better understanding of ourselves, our history, our intellectual and artistic achievements, and the outlooks of those who differ from us.
* Ethics - A search for viable individual, social and political principles of ethical conduct, judging them on their ability to enhance human well-being and individual responsibility.
* Building a better world - A conviction that with reason, an open exchange of ideas, good will, and tolerance, progress can be made in building a better world for ourselves and our children.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_humanism
I ask because I consider myself a secular humanist who happens to be religious.
I meet all these criteria yet am Roman Catholic:
* Need to test beliefs - A conviction that dogmas, ideologies and traditions, whether religious, political or social, must be weighed and tested by each individual and not simply accepted on faith.
* Reason, evidence, scientific method - Commitment to the use of critical reason, factual evidence, and scientific methods of inquiry, rather than faith and mysticism, in seeking solutions to human problems and answers to important human questions.
* Fulfillment, growth, creativity - A primary concern with fulfillment, growth, and creativity for both the individual and humankind in general.
* Search for truth - A constant search for objective truth, with the understanding that new knowledge and experience constantly alter our imperfect perception of it.
* This life - A concern for this life and a commitment to making it meaningful through better understanding of ourselves, our history, our intellectual and artistic achievements, and the outlooks of those who differ from us.
* Ethics - A search for viable individual, social and political principles of ethical conduct, judging them on their ability to enhance human well-being and individual responsibility.
* Building a better world - A conviction that with reason, an open exchange of ideas, good will, and tolerance, progress can be made in building a better world for ourselves and our children.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_humanism
Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: El Cerrito
Posts: 38
I don't consider myself to be religeous, but I do consider myself to be spiritual. I think doing recovery type work makes a person question his/her own beliefs. Thankfully programs and sites like this let each of us do "higher power" in our own way.
For me (a codie) letting go and recognizing that I am not super-human, was an important part of the process. Identifying that there are things stronger than me is necessary. I cannot define my beleif in higher power and trying just gives me a headache. However one of the books I read said that the very community of a meeting, can be more powerful than you and be your source of higher power. I needed the reality check that I am not omnicent/omnipotent. I need the faith in something larger than me. BUT that doesn't have to be defined, it doesn't have to be religeous, and it doesn't have to be one-size-fits-all.
I gratefully welcome all sizes, shapes and colors of folks trying to live healthier.
For me (a codie) letting go and recognizing that I am not super-human, was an important part of the process. Identifying that there are things stronger than me is necessary. I cannot define my beleif in higher power and trying just gives me a headache. However one of the books I read said that the very community of a meeting, can be more powerful than you and be your source of higher power. I needed the reality check that I am not omnicent/omnipotent. I need the faith in something larger than me. BUT that doesn't have to be defined, it doesn't have to be religeous, and it doesn't have to be one-size-fits-all.
I gratefully welcome all sizes, shapes and colors of folks trying to live healthier.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 9
"Secular Humanism is avowedly non-religious. It is a eupraxsophy (good practical wisdom), which draws its basic principles and ethical values from science, ethics and philosophy" ~ Paul Kurtz, founder Council for Secular Humanism.
I am non-religious, completely. I do not call myself spiritual although I recognize human spirit (metaphorically) as the most powerful force on the planet. I also came to realize during the course of my addiction that my "spirit" was the first thing to decline way before my physical health. I don't know the source as I was drunk when I heard it but someone once said that in addiction the soul is the first to die. I do not agree, as long as there are neurons firing in our neo-cortex the "soul" or "spirit" can be found. The spirit only truly dies when the brain tissue ceases to function. Perhaps I am mixing the two terms (soul and spirit) but I feel they mean the same thing. A good definition of soul (not including its popular use in music): "I like to think of it as something we create by investing our psychic energy in goals that benefit entities outside ourselves." (Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi). This is central to secular humanism.
I am no longer interested in debating the existence of supernatural beings of any sort with anyone ever! Been there done that. It is like wrestling with a pig in **** (mud). I am simply hoping to find people who enjoy exchanging ideas about philosophy and religion and recovery (and biology and astronomy etc.) without having to hear about how an invisible force changed their life. I am here because I know there are people here who also have struggled or are struggling with addiction as I have; and I hope to find someone that recognizes like I have that the release of irrational thoughts and using critical thinking skills are important aspects to regaining the "spirit" and staying sober. I know most of the people on this site will disagree and will try to convince me that the opposite is true that I must give up my "self" to a non-existent higher power surrender my critical thinking and "wait for the miracle". Not a chance.
I am currently reading (bouncing from one to other) from several books, Demon Haunted World by Sagan, A Treatise of Human Nature: Being an Attempt to Introduce the Experimental Method of Reasoning into Moral Subjects, by Hume and The God Delusion by Dawkins. I would enjoy discussing these and any other works along those lines with like minded freethinkers! Also, highly recommended reading, Jack Trimpey's Rational Recovery.
If anyone has read the latest issue of Free Inquiry magazine there is a great series of articles on religion and happiness. The results of much study has shown a correlation between religion and happiness. This is no surprise to most of us even staunch atheists like myself. The reason for the correlation (not certainly a causation) is unclear. It may likely be due to the fulfillment of certain human social needs that religion is good at. Such as, providing a strong support network during personal life crises. Also the tendency of most religions to deride vices such as alcohol consumption. As we all know, once getting sober, we are happier (at least certainly healthier) without the stuff! The core irrational beliefs of all religion is not likely the root of happiness.
Sorry for the long post, but as I said, I have little time available to me for reading and writing here!
Thanks for listening, if you did!
Mike
I am non-religious, completely. I do not call myself spiritual although I recognize human spirit (metaphorically) as the most powerful force on the planet. I also came to realize during the course of my addiction that my "spirit" was the first thing to decline way before my physical health. I don't know the source as I was drunk when I heard it but someone once said that in addiction the soul is the first to die. I do not agree, as long as there are neurons firing in our neo-cortex the "soul" or "spirit" can be found. The spirit only truly dies when the brain tissue ceases to function. Perhaps I am mixing the two terms (soul and spirit) but I feel they mean the same thing. A good definition of soul (not including its popular use in music): "I like to think of it as something we create by investing our psychic energy in goals that benefit entities outside ourselves." (Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi). This is central to secular humanism.
I am no longer interested in debating the existence of supernatural beings of any sort with anyone ever! Been there done that. It is like wrestling with a pig in **** (mud). I am simply hoping to find people who enjoy exchanging ideas about philosophy and religion and recovery (and biology and astronomy etc.) without having to hear about how an invisible force changed their life. I am here because I know there are people here who also have struggled or are struggling with addiction as I have; and I hope to find someone that recognizes like I have that the release of irrational thoughts and using critical thinking skills are important aspects to regaining the "spirit" and staying sober. I know most of the people on this site will disagree and will try to convince me that the opposite is true that I must give up my "self" to a non-existent higher power surrender my critical thinking and "wait for the miracle". Not a chance.
I am currently reading (bouncing from one to other) from several books, Demon Haunted World by Sagan, A Treatise of Human Nature: Being an Attempt to Introduce the Experimental Method of Reasoning into Moral Subjects, by Hume and The God Delusion by Dawkins. I would enjoy discussing these and any other works along those lines with like minded freethinkers! Also, highly recommended reading, Jack Trimpey's Rational Recovery.
If anyone has read the latest issue of Free Inquiry magazine there is a great series of articles on religion and happiness. The results of much study has shown a correlation between religion and happiness. This is no surprise to most of us even staunch atheists like myself. The reason for the correlation (not certainly a causation) is unclear. It may likely be due to the fulfillment of certain human social needs that religion is good at. Such as, providing a strong support network during personal life crises. Also the tendency of most religions to deride vices such as alcohol consumption. As we all know, once getting sober, we are happier (at least certainly healthier) without the stuff! The core irrational beliefs of all religion is not likely the root of happiness.
Sorry for the long post, but as I said, I have little time available to me for reading and writing here!
Thanks for listening, if you did!
Mike
Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: The Big Woods
Posts: 521
Originally Posted by Sobermind
...I know there are people here who also have struggled or are struggling with addiction as I have; and I hope to find someone that recognizes like I have that the release of irrational thoughts and using critical thinking skills are important aspects to regaining the "spirit" and staying sober. I know most of the people on this site will disagree and will try to convince me that the opposite is true that I must give up my "self" to a non-existent higher power surrender my critical thinking and "wait for the miracle". Not a chance.
Originally Posted by justicej
Community...can be more powerful than you and be your source of higher power
Doorknob, Windysan. Good to see you. I've been away. Contemplating. Which way to go. True what you say about tolerence, but one need not trip every day, every week, even every month, to be consumed in thinking of them, obsessed by their powerful allure of retreat/ escape, every day, nearly all day. It wasn't until just the past couple days, when the idea of going back was put directly to the test, that I realize for the first time that I truly don't want to go back to them. To go back would be major retreat, a major step backward into submission, into self-denial, into all that complacency and giving up the "spirit" of life that I'm just now beginning to taste, and I find this potential for freedom of mind so deliciously compelling. I mean, I do trust it's gotta taste better than mushrooms growing out of cow pies...yes?
Knucklehead
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Davenport, WA
Posts: 4,005
Originally Posted by justicej
Thankfully programs and sites like this let each of us do "higher power" in our own way.
Knucklehead
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Davenport, WA
Posts: 4,005
Originally Posted by aloneagainor
Doorknob, Windysan. Good to see you. I've been away. Contemplating. Which way to go. True what you say about tolerence, but one need not trip every day, every week, even every month, to be consumed in thinking of them, obsessed by their powerful allure of retreat/ escape, every day, nearly all day. It wasn't until just the past couple days, when the idea of going back was put directly to the test, that I realize for the first time that I truly don't want to go back to them. To go back would be major retreat, a major step backward into submission, into self-denial, into all that complacency and giving up the "spirit" of life that I'm just now beginning to taste, and I find this potential for freedom of mind so deliciously compelling. I mean, I do trust it's gotta taste better than mushrooms growing out of cow pies...yes?
Yo, I never ate those things for the taste. There are much more palatable varieties for that!
To Life!
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 9,293
Hi, Mike:
Welcome aboard! I believe you will find many like minded individuals here on the SC forum. And certainly, critical thinking skills are welcome anywhere on SR!
I don't think you'll find that to be the case here on this forum, Mike. We've worked very hard to maintain a protected place for secular humanists.
We want a place where ALL people can be comfortable at SR. Consequently, there are forums for religious followers, the spiritually inclined, 12 steppers and now secularists.
It's true there are occassions when people will come here and try to convince us of our folly. We respectfully disagree with them, here, without resorting to bashing either the individual believer or the program.
Indeed, for the secular humanist, who uses critical thinking skills, we know that to resort to bashing means we've lost the arguement!
But, there's no need to argue here, thankfully. The secular forum is for behavioralists without the need for a HP.
There's room for us all!
Shalom!
I am here because I know there are people here who also have struggled or are struggling with addiction as I have; and I hope to find someone that recognizes like I have that the release of irrational thoughts and using critical thinking skills are important aspects to regaining the "spirit" and staying sober.
I know most of the people on this site will disagree and will try to convince me that the opposite is true that I must give up my "self" to a non-existent higher power surrender my critical thinking and "wait for the miracle". Not a chance.
We want a place where ALL people can be comfortable at SR. Consequently, there are forums for religious followers, the spiritually inclined, 12 steppers and now secularists.
It's true there are occassions when people will come here and try to convince us of our folly. We respectfully disagree with them, here, without resorting to bashing either the individual believer or the program.
Indeed, for the secular humanist, who uses critical thinking skills, we know that to resort to bashing means we've lost the arguement!
But, there's no need to argue here, thankfully. The secular forum is for behavioralists without the need for a HP.
There's room for us all!
Shalom!
Big Idiot Man Child
Join Date: May 2004
Location: La
Posts: 5,664
Originally Posted by aloneagainor
Absolutely right on Mike. Thank you for stating this for me. I've been toying with this concept for years, wrestling with an addiction that just wouldn't quit. Not until I realized, in full, without reservations, that it's my own decision, my own choice, my own critical thinking, that is in charge of any and every decision I make, was I able to proceed in moving myself beyond this cyclical holding pattern I've kept myself in for nearly 2 decades. It's all still mighty hazy on this side, looking out, but with the help and clarity and support of my friends (and I don't mean of chemical origin) I'm seeing what I need to do, and amazingly, I'm doing it. . Indeed. It's entirely self-realization dependent, through allowing external input inside. There is no God directing me to this, it's of my own accord.
Doorknob, Windysan. Good to see you. I've been away. Contemplating. Which way to go. True what you say about tolerence, but one need not trip every day, every week, even every month, to be consumed in thinking of them, obsessed by their powerful allure of retreat/ escape, every day, nearly all day. It wasn't until just the past couple days, when the idea of going back was put directly to the test, that I realize for the first time that I truly don't want to go back to them. To go back would be major retreat, a major step backward into submission, into self-denial, into all that complacency and giving up the "spirit" of life that I'm just now beginning to taste, and I find this potential for freedom of mind so deliciously compelling. I mean, I do trust it's gotta taste better than mushrooms growing out of cow pies...yes?
Doorknob, Windysan. Good to see you. I've been away. Contemplating. Which way to go. True what you say about tolerence, but one need not trip every day, every week, even every month, to be consumed in thinking of them, obsessed by their powerful allure of retreat/ escape, every day, nearly all day. It wasn't until just the past couple days, when the idea of going back was put directly to the test, that I realize for the first time that I truly don't want to go back to them. To go back would be major retreat, a major step backward into submission, into self-denial, into all that complacency and giving up the "spirit" of life that I'm just now beginning to taste, and I find this potential for freedom of mind so deliciously compelling. I mean, I do trust it's gotta taste better than mushrooms growing out of cow pies...yes?
I never really could get over the taste.
Honey, chocolate, peanut butter.....that weird, dirty cowpoo taste always came through.
It has been awhile for me. I may blow out the pipes once a year.
To Life!
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 9,293
Which way to go. True what you say about tolerence, but one need not trip every day, every week, even every month, to be consumed in thinking of them, obsessed by their powerful allure of retreat/ escape, every day, nearly all day. It wasn't until just the past couple days, when the idea of going back was put directly to the test, that I realize for the first time that I truly don't want to go back to them. To go back would be major retreat, a major step backward into submission, into self-denial, into all that complacency and giving up the "spirit" of life that I'm just now beginning to taste, and I find this potential for freedom of mind so deliciously compelling.
What a GREAT testiment to choice!
:Thanks for sharing that. Choosing life is what it's about. You've made the choice, and I celebrate you!
Shalom!
Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 9
historyteach
I know I won't find people on "secular connection" that would try to convince of the need for a higher power I was refering to SR in general where I have lurked before and read posts that were vehemently non-secular! I am am here posting because this is a great place!
I know I won't find people on "secular connection" that would try to convince of the need for a higher power I was refering to SR in general where I have lurked before and read posts that were vehemently non-secular! I am am here posting because this is a great place!
To Life!
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 9,293
Glad to hear that, Sobermind!
Yes, in the different forums, there are alternate belief systems.
If one goes to a 12 step forum, one should expect talk of a higher power. It's part of the program.
Just as if one comes to SC, one should expect to read of behavioralist, humanist methods of recovery, sans a HP.
I'm happy that SR offers both.
Each person, no matter what their individual needs may be, deserve the right to get and stay clean and sober!
I'm glad you found your way here, and look forward to learning who you are and about how your recovery works.
Shalom!
Yes, in the different forums, there are alternate belief systems.
If one goes to a 12 step forum, one should expect talk of a higher power. It's part of the program.
Just as if one comes to SC, one should expect to read of behavioralist, humanist methods of recovery, sans a HP.
I'm happy that SR offers both.
Each person, no matter what their individual needs may be, deserve the right to get and stay clean and sober!
I'm glad you found your way here, and look forward to learning who you are and about how your recovery works.
Shalom!
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