Any Thoughts/Experience on/with Rational Recovery?

Old 10-17-2014, 11:33 AM
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It's very hard, Healthy. I struggled a lot with that when I first came to SR on another board. People told me one thing, my heart and gut told me another. Right now, my heart and what I call my HP is telling me to stay, work on it, don't give up yet. Totally contrary to what people tell me. Especially the couple of friends I have confided in. But ... it's very easy for them to say. I have to life this life, not them. And so I get to make the ultimate and final decision.

That said, you need to do what I right for you. Have you tried talking this out with him? Or with a therapist who is neutral? I think we always know the right answer, deep down inside, just sometimes we have problems finding it or admitting it.

I'm not sure where the dividing line is. I went through a horrible patch when I had DD, I had post partum depression that turned into long-term depression. AH finally made a dr's appt, and literally put me in the car and drove me to the dr to be put on meds. Was that rescuing? Or was it love and caring? I didn't find a bottom to my depression, but his actions made me realize how much I was hurting them. Now, I no longer need meds and manage quite well. Did he overstep or would I have done something serious had he not? And what makes that different from me stepping in and telling him he needs to look at his life and what he is doing to us? I don't know. How can I give up on someone I love? Maybe when he has given up on himself?

I don't know any of the answers. Just trying to follow my own heart and Higher Power.
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Old 10-17-2014, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by HealthyLiving View Post
I do find it interesting that I am spending about an hour a day reading the posts here (especially about Secular Recovery, which I never knew existed and would have suited him a ton better than AA). As far as I know, he has not taken any steps toward sobriety since I split, and here I am reading about programs for the first time. Hello codependency and "rescuing" and all the other labels that I thought didn't apply to me? Or can it just be love and caring? Where is the dividing line when you love someone?
Each of us have to answer these questions for ourselves, but Ive asked myself the question as to why I should treat my husband’s addiction, and my behaviors any different than if he had cancer, or heart disease. Both of these are chronic, life threatening. Both have risk factors that people can actively work on to limit their likelihood of being affected. Both have hereditary components, both can do damage to relationships, finances, social interactions, romantic relations, In all these other diseases you can ask yourself what am I getting out of this, is the cost to me worth the benefit. In both of these the person can be in denial of symptoms and delay treatment.

So why should addiction be viewed differently? Why should we act differently, or be considered codependent just because we are in one of these relationships ? Would you research heart disease, look for the best treatments, hospitals, try and make him see how serious this is if he was in denial? What if you found a lump but he kept saying it was nothing would you be codependent to pursue and continue to address your concern? The only difference I can see is with addiction we have to be careful not to enable and prevent the natural negative consequences of addiction to be removed because it helps people become aware of the seriousness, and break their own symptom of denial.

In any of these situations we can run the risk of letting it take over too much of our life, then we start to neglect ourselves and having personal problems, but I feel like family members of substance abusers were somehow singled out and labeled while other family members different diseases are not, they are said to be kind, caring, loving.

This would make a good thread all on its own, Id love to hear other peoples opinions on this topic. I hope I didn’t go off track, but what Im saying is I cant answer the part about your relationship, but I don’t think what you just described with learning new things about addiction is codependent behavior, its normal love and concern, plus educating yourself.
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Old 10-17-2014, 08:00 PM
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Thank you both for those thoughtful replies. (Not sure why, but my Quote feature isn't workinng for my iPad, nor is the Thanks button.)

soverylost, yes, I agree: why is it consider "caring" when your H "rescued" you from depression yet it's "rescuing" when loved ones of addicts try to help?

BlueChair, that is such a good point--why DO we treat it so differently? Is it because the majority see addiction as a choice (as opposed to cancer)?

I'm reading more about the science of addiction and find it fascinating. I wonder if in the near future the neuroscientists of the world will reveal that moral character has a lot less to do with addiction than most think.
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Old 10-21-2014, 05:58 PM
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Rr - avrt

Rational Recovery/AVRT has worked very well for me. As the Frank Sinatra Song goes, however, I did it my way.

First, I just up and quit. After 48 years. After deteriorating to a 1.75 L 'Handle' of Vodka every 2 days, 24/7 in early Retirement. A few months later, I found SR. Thereafter, I coincidentally followed the path of Freshstart57, and got wind of the methods that work for me, and that make sense. I learned of a Construct I could follow. It had a name; the Title of this Post.

I would liken RR to fighting Cancer by conscious choice outside the Western Medical Model. Elect to skip Chemo, and focus on more natural Methods. It's been done by some, and has worked for some. Or, perhaps a Woman with Cancer has some Lymph Nodes removed, but not all. Self Determination can work. I'm a firm believer in the Mind -> Body connection. The Mind resolves to never again pick up. The Hand never again picks up. Sobriety becomes a permanent state. By internalized choice; via internalized direction.

In the RR Model, I didn't 'go to' a 'Program' to be healed. I primarily healed myself with experienced assistance. One makes a Big Plan, and resolve unconditionally to quit. After not that long, there is no 'Relapse'. There is no 'White Knuckling'. There are no deals with the Devil after a 30 day Sobriety 'Test'. You have only very passing thoughts about something you simply can't go back to. I'm not some Moth waiting to fly into a Flame of Self-Destruction; kept out of the Flame only by some Regimen that I'm supposed to surrender to. I've moved completely far away from that proverbial Flame, and don't have to fear it.

It's an entirely different Paradigm, but I've always been one to rethink assumptions to find what's real, and what fits. For example, my [unoriginal] technique of making Amends: don't repeat behavior that requires them. Action speaks louder than words. The past is gone forever. I don't live in it. That's not Ego. That's simple, inarguable acceptance of Reality at the most fundamental level.

Self-Recovered types simply go out into the World and live Sober. I meet them at Parties. At our local Dog Park. Here at SR.

Over Lunch today, a lil Placard pitching a local Hard Cider mentioned that - long before Westernized Recovery Programs - Farm/Orchard Laborers received 4 Pints of Hard Cider/day. That's a ~Gallon of up to 15% to 18% Liquor daily. It defies Probability and Statistics to claim that none ever just up and quit Drinking. Of course they did. I've had Homemade 'Applejack'. Kicks you hard. We're hardly the first Generation to have Consciences, and exercise Free Will.

For those more comfortable with the Self Direction of Recovery - with assistance - RR/AVRT works. It might work in your situation; simply because it's a better fit to your 'Ex'es' Personality. No one else's Personality, or probability of success, matters whatsoever in his Recovery.

Let me close with 3 equivalent Statements. I don't kick Puppies. I don't hit Women. And, I don't Drink Alcohol. If the first 2 Statements seem utterly reasonable, and within a Person's Self Control, why do some characterize the 3rd Statement as being impossible to Self Realize and practice - as the first 2 - until the end of Life?
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Old 10-21-2014, 06:01 PM
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Just got the book today - amazing that this has been around for a decade. I'm super excited about it as well and feel better already about making the big plan. Doesn't go against my grain at all - never have felt more understood than when I read the introduction. I could have written it.
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Old 10-21-2014, 06:37 PM
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Thank you MesaMan for sharing, your comments are helpful.
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Old 10-22-2014, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by BlueChair View Post
Each of us have to answer these questions for ourselves, but Ive asked myself the question as to why I should treat my husband’s addiction, and my behaviors any different than if he had cancer, or heart disease. Both of these are chronic, life threatening. Both have risk factors that people can actively work on to limit their likelihood of being affected. Both have hereditary components, both can do damage to relationships, finances, social interactions, romantic relations, In all these other diseases you can ask yourself what am I getting out of this, is the cost to me worth the benefit. In both of these the person can be in denial of symptoms and delay treatment.

So why should addiction be viewed differently? Why should we act differently, or be considered codependent just because we are in one of these relationships ? Would you research heart disease, look for the best treatments, hospitals, try and make him see how serious this is if he was in denial? What if you found a lump but he kept saying it was nothing would you be codependent to pursue and continue to address your concern? The only difference I can see is with addiction we have to be careful not to enable and prevent the natural negative consequences of addiction to be removed because it helps people become aware of the seriousness, and break their own symptom of denial.
It should be viewed differently because you don't go to the cancer store and buy more cancer. People with cancer fight like hell to get rid of it; many alcoholics take more of the "disease" into their bodies.

As someone whose mother suffered for years with breast cancer, I find your comparison of alcoholism to a lump in the breast to be nauseating. There are NO similarities between the hell she went through and someone choosing to drink their lives away. Did you really say if you had a lump in your own breast that it wouldn't be codependent if you got it treated, and somehow try to compare that to alcoholism? Aside from the total lack of logic in your writing, your agenda, not your recovery, is again showing.

You should consider other people's experiences before you compare cancer and alcoholism again. And before anyone tells me I'm triggered and that I can ignore anyone I want on here, hell yes I'm triggered and hell no this should not be ignored. Actual people are out here, and ridiculous, offensive comparisons should not be allowed to stand. If you want to delete my post, then delete the "a lump in your breast is like alcoholism" post because it's a hell of a lot more offensive.
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Old 10-22-2014, 07:28 PM
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If you need clarification on what I wrote maybe ask.

This is embarrassing



I was referring to a scenario where if a woman found a lump on her husband (men get lumps various places too), not if I found a lump on myself.

Sorry if this confused you.

I have a cousin who found a lump in her breast when she was in her 30’s. She was in denial it could be a cancer and didn’t tell anyone or go to the doctor. Her husband actually felt the lump about 6 months later and asked her about it. She said it was a cyst, she had been watching it and it hadn’t changed in size. But he persisted with telling her she needed to have it examined and when she did it was stage 1 breast cancer. She had been in denial for months. So was he codependent? He also stayed with her through all of it supporting her day and night, missing work, holding her while she cried, and cleaning up vomit when she accidentally got it on the floor. Was he codependent?

Would you like another example, my husband almost died in a drug dealers house because he was too sick, in denial, constantly shooting up and didn’t realize he was dying from a pre-existing medical condition. But we moved heaven and earth to find him and get him the help he needed, and tonight he’s safe, healthy, drug free, and in our home.

were we all codependent?

People in denial, when their brain is ravaged by addiction will go to the store and by more death in a bottle, pill, or syringe.

I think you and I have different views on the entire scope of addiction, and looks like on ideas of codependency too.
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Old 10-23-2014, 05:03 PM
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I am not sure if you understand what addiction really is totallytrying.

The definition form the National Institute on Drug Abuse defines it like this:
Addiction is defined as a chronic, relapsing brain disease that is characterized by compulsive drug seeking and use, despite harmful consequences. It is considered a brain disease because drugs change the brain; they change its structure and how it works. These brain changes can be long lasting and can lead to many harmful, often self-destructive, behaviors.
And the American Society of Addiction Medicine defines it like this.
Addiction is a primary, chronic disease of brain reward, motivation, memory and related circuitry. Dysfunction in these circuits leads to characteristic biological, psychological, social and spiritual manifestations. This is reflected in an individual pathologically pursuing reward and/or relief by substance use and other behaviors.

Addiction is characterized by inability to consistently abstain, impairment in behavioral control, craving, diminished recognition of significant problems with one’s behaviors and interpersonal relationships, and a dysfunctional emotional response. Like other chronic diseases, addiction often involves cycles of relapse and remission. Without treatment or engagement in recovery activities, addiction is progressive and can result in disability or premature death.
I guess we both agree that cancer is a disease, so I don't look up a definition. So please understand that addiction is NOT a choice but a serious disease. So i, who lost 2 family members due to cancer and knows someone who survived cancer and someone who is battling with addiction, agree that these diseases can be compared.Their fight against their diseases is as hard and cruel as the battle against cancer and takes as many sacrifices. Addicts don't consume their DOC because they want to do it, it's because they are addicted, it's because they are sick. So, if you feel offended by comparing cancer and addiction, i'm offended if you say consuming their DOC is just a simple choice. People are fighting as hard as they can against this disease. Some of them relapse, some of them even lose their fight, but i refuse to accept the fact that some say this is due to mental weakness and making the wrong choice.

I think Blue's point is that many here seem to think that turning their back against the addicted person is the right thing to do in order to protect themselves. What if someone just found out that they suffer from cancer and their SO decided to leave them because of that? How many of you who support tough love would agree with that? I think not a lot. But why is it acceptable to do so with someone suffering from addiction? Why is it okay not to support people suffering from addiction, but someone fighting cancer gets all the support possible? Why is it okay to leave a person who's detoxing alone, while hardly no one, would leave a person alone who's going through Chemo? Why does one group deserve support and one doesn't? Maybe someone can explain it to me, because I simply don't understand it.
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Old 10-23-2014, 05:36 PM
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If my mother -- who is suffering from cancer -- starts lying to me, stealing from me, and generally putting my safety at risk, then I will withhold my support from her and put up a boundary miles high -- just as I had to do with my partner when he did these things and put me at risk due to his addiction.

It's interesting that you quote the government agency called the National Institute of Health -- but at the same time you ignore the fact that this same exact government which the National Institute of Health is a part of finds it necessary to fire people due to drug use, to prevent people from driving due to drug use, to incarcerate millions for drug use, even take away children from their families due to drug use.

Odd paradox, isn't it? One little government agency talks about chronic, relapsing brain disease, and tells us to be compassionate for the poor poor sufferers of drg addiction -- and some people on this board take that as the gospel straight from God! But on the other, many governmental departments and agencies take a very, very hard line. Just try getting caught shooting up or dealing drugs if you have a security clearance job and see how far you get. Your career would be ruined.

The government very sensibly protects itself. It's perfectly ok for anyone who is dealing with an addict to take steps to protect themselves -- without remorse or guilt.
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Old 10-23-2014, 06:28 PM
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My father died of cancer. I watched him suffer and die a horrible painful senseless death. And I completely agree with Blue's analogy.
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Old 10-23-2014, 11:19 PM
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My AH had been battling addiction for years when he started working a program for his sobriety (meetings, sponsors, counseling, etc). The transformation was like night and day. Not only was he working his program, he was doing outreach programs to help others as well. He was sober for several years, but sadly he relapsed again and has been struggling ever since. Although I do agree that addiction damages your brain, my AH was 100% sober when he relapsed. He knew what would happen if he went down that road and he still CHOSE to do it. I'm fortunate enough to know people that have maintained their sobriety for years and they've often said how it took them an EXTENDED period of sobriety for them to take ownership of their choices.

As to why people/society view addiction differently from other diseases (heart disease, cancer, diabetes, etc), I think one of the reasons is due to all the crimes that are tied to drug use/addiction. It pains us to know that the people we love, the people who have shown us so many wonderful qualities can be capable of such things. Home invasions, beatings, robberies, carjackings, murder, etc. Some of these crimes have drug use as their root source, people desperate for money or under the influence of a substance. Many times the victims are innocent bystanders, who through no fault of their own, are victimized, and people are getting sick and tired of it. If someone you cared about was brutally victimized (God forbid), would you tell them “Well, they (the attacker) couldn't help themselves, they are just sick”? Would you stand before a judge and ask for leniency for the addict while your loved one lay in some hospital, or worse? Again, God forbid, but unfortunately situations like this occur everyday due to drug use.

Now on to the original post regarding Rational Recovery....................I say if it works for you, go for it. There are so many different paths that people take towards recovery. No two people are the same, what works for one may not work for the other. The same thing goes for the family members as well.

I'm all for trying everything under the sun, whether it's spiritual, secular, SMART, AA, NA, etc. Hell, I would have stood on my head yodeling at the top of my lungs (in the rain, while juggling swords) if I thought that would have helped. (I sometimes use humor to try and diffuse tense situations, I apologize if my last sentence offended anyone). I am always happy to hear of someone maintaining their sobriety or a family or marriage that has survived addiction. I wouldn't want anyone to go through what I went through.

Healthy Living, I truly hope your story has a happy ending, with or without him. Break ups are hard (especially when addiction is involved), it's hard to let go of someone and the future you planned with them. The important thing is for you to be safe and to be able to live with the choices you make. You deserve to be treated with respect and dignity and only you know what your boundaries are. You know what your values and principles are and whether or not your partner is honoring them and honoring you. Best of luck to you.

p.s. I know that sometimes things can get heated in these discussions and emotions can run high, so if I said anything that hurt, triggered or offended anyone, I sincerely apologize.
Peace
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Old 10-24-2014, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Needabreak View Post
If my mother -- who is suffering from cancer -- starts lying to me, stealing from me, and generally putting my safety at risk, then I will withhold my support from her and put up a boundary miles high -- just as I had to do with my partner when he did these things and put me at risk due to his addiction.

It's interesting that you quote the government agency called the National Institute of Health -- but at the same time you ignore the fact that this same exact government which the National Institute of Health is a part of finds it necessary to fire people due to drug use, to prevent people from driving due to drug use, to incarcerate millions for drug use, even take away children from their families due to drug use.

Odd paradox, isn't it? One little government agency talks about chronic, relapsing brain disease, and tells us to be compassionate for the poor poor sufferers of drg addiction -- and some people on this board take that as the gospel straight from God! But on the other, many governmental departments and agencies take a very, very hard line. Just try getting caught shooting up or dealing drugs if you have a security clearance job and see how far you get. Your career would be ruined.

The government very sensibly protects itself. It's perfectly ok for anyone who is dealing with an addict to take steps to protect themselves -- without remorse or guilt.
I dont understand what your saying exactly? who said you shouldnt protect yourself? who said you should feel guilty?

If a person lives with a cleptomaniac they probably have to protect themselves too I would guess. Their disease makes them STEAL.

Did you know Alzheimers patients can have VIOLENT outbursts?

I also think that one little government agency is the largest in the world, they are the leaders in addiction and set government policy and educational for the United States. Thank God they are in charge of this instead of some other obscure little group. Before they came along this was the view, quoted from National Institute of Drug Abuse:

For much of the past century, scientists studying drug abuse labored in the shadows of powerful myths and misconceptions about the nature of addiction. When scientists began to study addictive behavior in the 1930s, people addicted to drugs were thought to be morally flawed and lacking in willpower. Those views shaped society’s responses to drug abuse, treating it as a moral failing rather than a health problem, which led to an emphasis on punishment rather than prevention and treatment. Today, thanks to science, our views and our responses to addiction and other substance use disorders have changed dramatically. Groundbreaking discoveries about the brain have revolutionized our understanding of compulsive drug use, enabling us to respond effectively to the problem.

As a result of scientific research, we know that addiction is a disease that affects both the brain and behavior. We have identified many of the biological and environmental factors and are beginning to search for the genetic variations that contribute to the development and progression of the disease. Scientists use this knowledge to develop effective prevention and treatment approaches that reduce the toll drug abuse takes on individuals, families, and communities.
I think family should not be made to feel guilty or shamed for supporting their family member or friend. They should not be made to feel guilty for showing compassion.

When I say poor poor cancer patient, I say it with compassion and sincerity.
When I say poor poor person with an addiction, I say it with the SAME compassion and sincerity.
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Old 10-24-2014, 10:35 AM
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Okay. First of all, what you mention regarding the government's policy is not quite correct. You can look it up on Section 5 of the Executive Order regarding a Drug free workplace

http://www.archives.gov/federal-regi...der/12564.html

I think what you mention regarding driving under the influence is with all due respect ridiculous. I go out with friends and drink alcohol. Am i addicted? Certainly not. Am I allowed to drive? Nope, because I am not in a condition to drive and would endanger other people. The same thing goes if I have to get done some medical procedure and am under the influence of certain medications. It's about directly putting other people in danger. The same goes for children. If any parent is not able to take care of their children, the children will be moved. Children need to be protected and there might be cases where a parent is just not able to take care after them and a foster family might be better for them. Penalties for drug felonies could be a discussion for itself and it's not the topic here.

Please be aware that people in active addiction and people in recovery might be reading here as well. I would appreciate it if you show a little bit more respect and be less sarcastic. Thank you.

Sara21, i agree with you that the crimes that are happening related to addiction are horrible. However, yes, I do think that crimes that no one hurt or endanger physically, should be punished less if done by an addict. But once again, that's not the point of that discussion. But to answer your question, yes, my understanding and feelings would be different whether the attacker is suffering from addiction or if he's doing it because of other reasons. But i think neither of us could answer the question, unless we're confronted with that situation and god forbid that we ever have to face it!
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Old 10-24-2014, 10:40 AM
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Yes, I would protect myself from a kleptomaniac, and yes, alzheimers patients have violent outbursts sometimes. This is why violent alzheimers patients are kept sedated in institutions. There was one in my grandmother's nursing home who injured 3 other patients. Oh man, the payouts from the lawsuit that resulted kept some of the heirs of those patients happy for years!

But my main point is, people on this board should not feel guilty for NOT supporting an addict in our lives. Choosing to walk away instead is very often the best choice. One participant in this thread wrote the below quote, which implies that those who do walk away are as bad as someone walking away from a cancer patient or a sufferer of heart disease.

"So why should addiction be viewed differently? Why should we act differently, or be considered codependent just because we are in one of these relationships ? Would you research heart disease, look for the best treatments, hospitals, try and make him see how serious this is if he was in denial? What if you found a lump but he kept saying it was nothing would you be codependent to pursue and continue to address your concern? The only difference I can see is with addiction we have to be careful not to enable and prevent the natural negative consequences of addiction to be removed because it helps people become aware of the seriousness, and break their own symptom of denial...."

I disagree entirely, and read these words as codependency run amok. Too many people, especially women, are brought up to be self-sacrificing. In fact, the friends and family boards are full of people who are compromising their own lives while trying to save someone who really doesn't want to be saved. But, unless we're dealing with minor children, we are not obligated to sacrifice our own lives to save other people.
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Old 10-24-2014, 10:42 AM
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"Please be aware that people in active addiction and people in recovery might be reading here as well. I would appreciate it if you show a little bit more respect and be less sarcastic. Thank you."


This is the Friends and Family Boards, we support friends and family members here. If addicts don't like what we say, they can certainly stay away and read their own boards. If a moderator chooses to censure me, that's fine. But it is not your role to do so, Buttercup.
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Old 10-24-2014, 10:57 AM
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You're right, it's not my job to do that and I apologize for that! Sorry!
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Old 10-24-2014, 11:05 AM
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No prob, we're writing about sensitive, triggering stuff, buttercup. It's not easy, no matter what your perspective on the subject is.
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Old 10-24-2014, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Needabreak View Post
Yes, I would protect myself from a kleptomaniac, and yes, alzheimers patients have violent outbursts sometimes. This is why violent alzheimers patients are kept sedated in institutions. There was one in my grandmother's nursing home who injured 3 other patients. Oh man, the payouts from the lawsuit that resulted kept some of the heirs of those patients happy for years!

But my main point is, people on this board should not feel guilty for NOT supporting an addict in our lives. Choosing to walk away instead is very often the best choice. One participant in this thread wrote the below quote, which implies that those who do walk away are as bad as someone walking away from a cancer patient or a sufferer of heart disease.

"So why should addiction be viewed differently? Why should we act differently, or be considered codependent just because we are in one of these relationships ? Would you research heart disease, look for the best treatments, hospitals, try and make him see how serious this is if he was in denial? What if you found a lump but he kept saying it was nothing would you be codependent to pursue and continue to address your concern? The only difference I can see is with addiction we have to be careful not to enable and prevent the natural negative consequences of addiction to be removed because it helps people become aware of the seriousness, and break their own symptom of denial...."

I disagree entirely, and read these words as codependency run amok. Too many people, especially women, are brought up to be self-sacrificing. In fact, the friends and family boards are full of people who are compromising their own lives while trying to save someone who really doesn't want to be saved. But, unless we're dealing with minor children, we are not obligated to sacrifice our own lives to save other people.
Originally Posted by Needabreak View Post

But my main point is, people on this board should not feel guilty for NOT supporting an addict in our lives. Choosing to walk away instead is very often the best choice. One participant in this thread wrote the below quote, which implies that those who do walk away are as bad as someone walking away from a cancer patient or a sufferer of heart disease.

"So why should addiction be viewed differently? Why should we act differently, or be considered codependent just because we are in one of these relationships ? Would you research heart disease, look for the best treatments, hospitals, try and make him see how serious this is if he was in denial? What if you found a lump but he kept saying it was nothing would you be codependent to pursue and continue to address your concern? The only difference I can see is with addiction we have to be careful not to enable and prevent the natural negative consequences of addiction to be removed because it helps people become aware of the seriousness, and break their own symptom of denial...."

I disagree entirely, and read these words as codependency run amok. Too many people, especially women, are brought up to be self-sacrificing. In fact, the friends and family boards are full of people who are compromising their own lives while trying to save someone who really doesn't want to be saved. But, unless we're dealing with minor children, we are not obligated to sacrifice our own lives to save other people.
I think people on this board should have FREE WILL to pursue what they think is best for themselves without guilt or shame being associated with either choice.

I think we each read an interpret based on our own intellect, personal experiences, emotional status, religious, moral constraints. I grew up with a sense of personal boundaries already intact, I understand what your saying about self sacrifice but Ive never felt that way myself. So where you see codependency running wild I see normal behavior. I dont have an issue with trying to save anyone. Not someone on this board, my husband, a cancer patient, or a kleptomaniac. Its hard for me to even comprehend the burden one must feel if they think they can save people based on what they can offer of self. " If Im nice enough, loving enough, give him enough sex" I cant comprehend it.

Do these same people think they can cure someone's cancer? or do they feel this way because they dont have a good understandign of why people become addicted, and what it takes to recover? dont know but I suspect its part of the problem. If you think someone is choosing drugs over you, not understanding the brain stuff them it changes thinking and makes you think you can save them?

What I can comprehend is staying active in a person life no matter what kind of disease they might have, accepting them for who they are, having compassion for their hardships, using my influence and means to help them find and obtain the help they need, supporting their efforts, having an emotional connection during the process, and dealing with my own thoughts and feelings so I can keep a high level of attachment both physically and emotionally.

But see this is what I want for me, not you or anyone else. At the same time I dont want to be told Im wrong because this doesnt work for you personally. Its insulting to me when Im plastered with codependent comments, or told to read stickies that will cure me, and change my beliefs to that of someone else.

There may come a time when I need to walk away, and I hope all the work I do on understanding myself, the disease of addiction, my thoughts, feelings will allow me to do so with dignity, but without anger or bitterness. I hope the day never comes for me. Im sorry its something many people here have had to face, but I cant save them from their own pain and life experiences.
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Old 10-24-2014, 12:46 PM
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