Leaving AA
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 204,910
There are other meeting based groups with people who could benefit from hearing another alcoholic's experiences (Refuge Recovery was mentioned), yet thee conversation is always steered back to what is wrong with the people who disagree with anything AA related.
The Secular forums are a great place to start discussion threads on non 12 step principles.
D
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 204,910
You've misundertood me.
Like I said before you're welcome to post here
I was just trying to explain that 'the conversation is always steered back to what is wrong with the people who disagree with anything AA related' is pretty likely to happen in a 12 step forum, even a secular one.
It would likely happen in a Rational Recovery forum too, a Christian one, or a Star Trek forum.
live long and prosper
D
Like I said before you're welcome to post here
I was just trying to explain that 'the conversation is always steered back to what is wrong with the people who disagree with anything AA related' is pretty likely to happen in a 12 step forum, even a secular one.
It would likely happen in a Rational Recovery forum too, a Christian one, or a Star Trek forum.
live long and prosper
D
Member
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 137
Sure, but part of the "dogma" or problem with AA is that the answer is never that AA just doesn't work for some people, nor isn't the final answer on recovery or alcoholism. It's not, many ideas are outdated nor congruent with modern psychology or medicine. The fact that the only response you have is that the poster is just showing common signs of denial or "balking," demonstrates AA dogmatic group think.
Originally Posted by August252015 
My first thought was why you needed to tell US? Could be plenty of answers, and I'm not being snarky - it's just that this is exactly the stuff to take to your sponsor.
Things like the disease model, spiritual malady, things we did not being that bad...all common to balk at or find "don't apply" to us, so that's behind working the steps.
No reason you HAVE to do AA, but just from what you've shared, it doesn't sound like you have committed to the program to see if it will work for you. Which isn't going to meetings and having a sponsor. So that's an option.
Things like the disease model, spiritual malady, things we did not being that bad...all common to balk at or find "don't apply" to us, so that's behind working the steps.
No reason you HAVE to do AA, but just from what you've shared, it doesn't sound like you have committed to the program to see if it will work for you. Which isn't going to meetings and having a sponsor. So that's an option.
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Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 137
AA is not the only answer to alcoholism, even if they are an alcoholic. AA does not have a monopoly on recovery. The Big Book even states that. Statistics bear this out too, that the majority of people get sober without AA. Full disclosure: I personally attend AA. But the dogma and group think like you are demonstrating are an issue many people have cited.
Originally Posted by awuh1
There seems to be some step 1 issues here. If you don't think you are an alcoholic ok. Sounds like AA has helped you and if you decide to stop attending meetings that's a good thing to take away from the experience. If you think there is any chance that you are in fact an alcoholic I'd put off that decision to end your participation... at least till that question is resolved.
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Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 137
There is a lot of wonderful congruency between the two. Where they aren't congruent is the submission to to a god-like higher power. Generally, most Buddhist philosophy is largely deistic or atheistic. There isn't a personal God or higher power guiding you.
Originally Posted by awuh1
“Consider the eight-part program laid down in Buddhism: Right view, right aim, right speech, right action, right living, right effort, right mindedness and right contemplation. The Buddhist philosophy, as exemplified by these eight points, could be literally adopted by AA as a substitute for or addition to the Twelve Steps. Generosity, universal love and welfare of others rather than considerations of self are basic to Buddhism.” Akron Pamphlet “Spiritual Milestones in Alcoholics Anonymous” edited by Dr. Bob
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Join Date: Apr 2020
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That is correct regarding the meetings for life and a number of AA teachings. However, in How it Works it says that those who won't accept the simple program of AA are "constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves," implying that the only people who could disagree with it or not follow it are not being honest with themselves. Teachings such as "if you leave you will be dry or relapse" and "AA is the only way" are common place across all four states I have attended AA, and two major online platforms for AA I use not including this one, both with tens of thousands of members across the world. This shows that most groups do have beliefs and dogma beyond the big book. Also, it has been shown that other AA literature does enforce the idea that its the only way. Although AA says "take what works for you and leave the rest," and "the only requirement is a desire to stop drinking," many groups and members WILL treat you poorly if you do just that and/or disagree with some portion and many people experience the cold shoulder and assertions they will relapse, if and when they stop attending meetings. We have to address AA as it actually is in practice, not just what the book says. We need to start being honest that this is the dynamic in many AA communities. To a certain degree, it's gaslighting or "no true AA group" fallacy when people deny it's happening.
Originally Posted by Tatsy
The twelve steps are common sense and nowhere in the Big Book does it say you must attend meetings for life, nor does it mention sponsors. In fact Awuh who is an AA historian, will know more about this than me, and I hope will enlighten you.
The end of the original BB was to spread these 'principles' to everyone, not just alcoholics, then it was edited. It's basically the tenets of Christianity, morphed with other sound spiritual principles, plus William James' spiritual experience beliefs. BillW was a very well read person.
If AA suits you, keep attending. If not, continue practicing its principles and expand into other areas in addition.
The end of the original BB was to spread these 'principles' to everyone, not just alcoholics, then it was edited. It's basically the tenets of Christianity, morphed with other sound spiritual principles, plus William James' spiritual experience beliefs. BillW was a very well read person.
If AA suits you, keep attending. If not, continue practicing its principles and expand into other areas in addition.
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