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Bill Wilson, AA Pioneer and controversy

Old 11-27-2019, 08:55 AM
  # 41 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Derringer View Post
I had an experience like Bills, stone cold sober, no drugs. Laying on my bed 2 days after yet another episode involving yet another car crash and loss of job. Cry out to God, start praying and wham, this feeling of ectasy, love and being in the presence of something indescribably powerful came over me, then a feeling of calm and 'everything is going to be ok' and it was.

The only thing I can think to describe it would be like a hug from a parent when you're small and upset and then that makes everything better, but like 100 times that feeling and like I have since read from others who have had the same experience, a realisation that I had just been in the presence of God.
I had nothing as intense.

However, I felt a calmness and a realization as I walked down the street after my first meeting that I no longer had to drink.

And I haven't had a drink since.
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Old 11-27-2019, 04:55 PM
  # 42 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by awuh1 View Post
Like yours Derringer, my spiritual experience came stone cold sober and followed a "cry out". I always feel so grateful to hear from others who have had similar experiences. I see these experiences as a response to an earnest, and urgent, request for help.

Though apart from the reality, at least as we are accustomed to experiencing it, the experience for me was more real than real while at the same time being for the most part ineffable.

Silentrun my experience also had that quality of connectedness . Thanks again, I'm grateful to you both.
Things had gotten really weird for me right about 9 months sober. I think I finally came out of my depression and was working my way through my issues. There was still one thing I couldn't forgive myself for because if I had it to do over I would still do the same thing. All of my other regrettable actions I would do differently so those were easy. The day this happened I was having a glorious day. I was just over a year sober and was driving 2 hours north to Duluth to go get my daughter from a sleepover she decided to bail on. It was early spring and sunny and the snow/ice on Lake Superior was the most brilliant turquoise I had ever seen. Every song that came on the radio seemed like a love song meant for me. The whole drive was sublime. I kept having this guilt invade my thoughts. I felt it deep. I cried out kind of like you guys did with my guilt of something that I'd do again. That's when I felt it pass over me and showed me I was looking at it all wrong. I felt this feeling of complete acceptance just as I was. Always was accepted just as I was, always will be. I think I connected to Mr. Rodgers.
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Old 11-28-2019, 12:41 PM
  # 43 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by silentrun View Post
Things had gotten really weird for me .... I think I connected to Mr. Rodgers.
What's that oft quoted phrase from the book......... "as we understood him" ?

Originally Posted by Tatsy View Post
Silentrun,, Derringer and Awuh, your experiences sound wonderful. I’d truly love to have such an experience!
I sincerely wish that every single person could, but I think you'll need to check with Mr Rogers on that one

Happy Thanksgiving everyone.
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Old 12-25-2019, 04:52 PM
  # 44 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Tatsy View Post
Silentrun,, Derringer and Awuh, your experiences sound wonderful. Id truly love to have such an experience!
Hey Tatsy, I hope you had an enjoyable Christmas. Let me pass on how the big book covers this and how it worked for me.

I started this journey with no belief, not even any faith that it would work. My experience so far included nothing about God, and nothing about being able to beat the problem. Everything had failed and all indications were that it would continue to be that way. All I wanted was for the misery to stop, and misery was about the only thing I had left to lose.

AA experience suggests the problem can be over come by some kind of conversion experience even when all else fails. To get to one of those the only thing I needed to make a start was a willingness to believe that there was a Power that could solve my problem. Even though I did not believe, I could see no downside in the idea, so I was willing, and that meant that I followed up with the suggested actions to make the idea of possible belief into a reality.

Somewhere in the book, I am not sure where, this promise appears "The consciousness of you belief is sure to come to you" and that is precisely what happened. There were some knock yoir socks off moments like the moment in step nine when I realised the obsession had been lifted, or the moment the step five promises became reality, these were powerful experiences.

But I would say the most powerful experience is the ongoing one, where somehow I naturally began behaving and acting in a completely different way than before, and my life became purposeful and rewarding, and to top it all off, that silly thought that a drink would be a good idea just stopped coming.

I have changed a lot. People noticed before I was even aware, so if I was unaware of the changes it stands to reason I could not have engineered them myself. My spiritual transformation became possible through willingness to believe, and my faith, belief, and sobriety all came almost as the result of the process. Faith and belief was not a prerequisite.
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Old 12-27-2019, 06:08 AM
  # 45 (permalink)  
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Hi Mike, I hope you had a peaceful Christmas. Thank you for your post, what you speak of, your experience, sounds akin to a psychic transformative shift, of the spiritual (educational?) kind. It sounds equally as beneficial as the sudden spiritual experience (enlightenment?) that Awuh and others have written about.

I wrote this on SR a few days ago, I'm not a religious person, although raised a Catholic, I renounced that, and any, faith. On Christmas Eve, I felt an urge to attend Midnight Mass.

Originally Posted by Tatsy View Post
Beautiful song, Wholesome. The Midnight Mass was simply breathtaking. The choir was exquisite, and yes, it brought me to tears. Part way through, the congregation hold the hands of people sat beside, in front and behind and say....well, I'm not religious, but I'm sure it was 'peace be with you'. And in front were a young boy and girl, and they spun around and performed this ritual, it was moving.

At the end, the Bishop stood beside the exit door, and bade each person farewell. His sermon, spoken without script, was pertinent to myself and my losses this year.

When it came my turn at the exit door, he held my hand in both of his, and I placed my other hand over his. The Bishop reached down, and I stood on my tiptoes, and it was so natural, he kissed me on my cheek, and I kissed his. He said some phrases, but I didn't hear them. I'd stood in line for ages, looking ahead, and he only did that action with a few of the congregation.

It was that link, that contact, that carried me out into the evening at 1.40am, buzzing higher than any alcoholic drink. I felt renewed and cleansed. And I felt hope. I still do. If I never visit a church/cathedral again, I'll never forget that magical Mass, and the kind, insightful, Bishop.
I'm still pondering my next steps. I guess I'm seeking peace. I do hope that you are well, Mike.
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Old 01-01-2020, 02:12 PM
  # 46 (permalink)  
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Tatsy, I just happened across your post here.

But of course in my current frame of mind (may it endure), I didn't "just happen" here. I was led here to read this moving story of your own Christmas miracle.

I couldn't be happier for you to have found that space of magic and wonderment at the end of this very trying year. It is my fond wish that you find the peace you seek in this New Year.

O
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Old 01-01-2020, 02:28 PM
  # 47 (permalink)  
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Thank you O, I believe in happenstance. May peace be with you this New Year too, my friend. x
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Old 01-02-2020, 05:38 AM
  # 48 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Tatsy View Post
Thank you O, I believe in happenstance. May peace be with you this New Year too, my friend. x
Let me direct you to post #40.

O
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Old 01-02-2020, 07:01 AM
  # 49 (permalink)  
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Yes, O, I hadn't noticed....I guess I was thinking it would take the form of a blinding white light and being lifted off my feet. Well, I needed to stand on my toes, so that's a raise. It was an incredibly special moment in my life. Plus, the Bishop's prior sermon seemed so pertinent to my trials, and my losses, this year. It was all a sign, about not looking backwards, and facing forwards, forging forwards, having hope, someone believing in me, not wasting my precious time on this earth.

I'm sorry to other readers, I appreciate this is secular, and I'm not religious, but I just wished to recount my experience.
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Old 01-02-2020, 07:39 AM
  # 50 (permalink)  
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Hmm, perhaps I am misunderstanding.
I read/felt your experience as quite clearly spiritual, without regard to the setting.
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Old 01-02-2020, 08:23 AM
  # 51 (permalink)  
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No misunderstanding, O. It was truly spiritual, not religiosity in my eyes, not the setting. I was just referencing my concerns that other secular readers may dislike the setting!
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Old 01-02-2020, 09:14 AM
  # 52 (permalink)  
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I wish there were emoji "Thanks" icons.
Like for this one, I'd click on the quizzical face and leave it at that.
Thanks for the clarification.
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Old 01-02-2020, 09:43 AM
  # 53 (permalink)  
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Me too, O. I'm emoji-quizzical about your reply...I really don't understand, what you don't understand, in your 'misunderstanding' post 50 and 52?
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Old 01-02-2020, 07:29 PM
  # 54 (permalink)  
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Well, I'm confused about why you apologized at the end of post 49.

It seemed to be because your story was related in the secular 12-step sub-forum, but I can't quite puzzle out why an apology would be needed. I checked the top stickies to see if there is a definition of what is and isn't allowed here and I don't see a prohibition against discussing things that happen in religious settings or even in religious contexts. I know secular can mean anything from atheist to spiritual-but-not-religious, depending on the definer, but I guess I'd think a secular 12-step person would be of the spiritual variety? And I consider myself a spiritual-not-religious person and am thrilled that you had such a beautiful spiritual experience. Doesn't matter to me whether it was in a synagogue, a church, a port-a-potty, or a McDonald's. Isn't that kind of the point of secular spirituality? Love/God/The Spirit/HP/Aum is all around? Would other secular people object to the setting in which you had your spiritual experience?

Does that help explain my state of quizicality (to coin a confused word)?
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Old 01-03-2020, 01:45 AM
  # 55 (permalink)  
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Ah, know I understand the reasoning for your quizzicalness. I must admit, I was flummoxed.

I apologised pre-emptively, in case someone was offended by the setting and cast surrounding my experience, this being a Secular forum.
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Old 01-03-2020, 07:29 AM
  # 56 (permalink)  
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Thanks for reconnecting me..

I'd like to thank all who've contributed to this post for reconnecting me..

You see on the 8th of Sept., 2016, eight years sober and a week before my 70th birthday I underwent an emergency life saving operation followed b y a further five weeks in a m edically induced coma because of concerns over a line of sepsis. None of which, even by the surgeon and his team, I was expected to survive, and that, without wishing to sound to melodramatic , was the easy bit.

As a neurosurgeon explained to me, recovery for anyone spending a prolonged, and trust me five weeks in medical terms, is a long time. In an induced coma is a bit like turning a tv on in which the fuse has already blown and expecting it to work again. Not going to happen, ok!

The good news is that you do eventually get better but no one can predict the length olf time that will take or the quality of its effect on the person. There might be parts of you that either don't work again or do so in a reduced manner...

Three years on and I can now walk unsupported, although not every day as it exhausts me, a half a mile and mentally, at a basic level reasonably well allowing for the fact that I tend to let others be the judge of that.

All of which is helped by sharing the experience, strength and hope of others in the face of suffering and adversity and their recovery from the same,

'Ignis, aurum, probat,' - fire tests gold - suffering tests brave men and women..

So thank you for reconnecting me, I think I have been in danger of forgetting where I came from and that is very dangerous for those who suffer from the disease/illness of alcoholism.
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Old 01-03-2020, 08:43 AM
  # 57 (permalink)  
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This Sub-Forum originally was broken out and established as one of a few tiny sections of SR free from the invasive and pervasive affects of things overtly, or bordering on, Religious or Spiritual.

I'll leave it to others to search for whatever definition of 'Secular' suits them.

If there's some question about this, error on the side of Forum respect, and post such material elsewhere. There's plenty of areas on SR to do so. On this aspect, we all bring our experience to the Table. I moderate on several other Pages, including an Addiction Page. Inevitably, I bring that experience and common sense to bear here. I'm sure a Mod will clarify any misunderstandings here.

I'm generally in favor of Free Range Threads that meander into interesting, inclusive areas. I do not see this is currently the case re: the OP Topic here. The current drift of this Thread is not inclusive, IMO. Feel free to start a new Thread in another, appropriate Sub-Forum.
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Old 01-03-2020, 09:12 AM
  # 58 (permalink)  
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Thanks for the clarification, Mesa.

I did look for guidance at the top of this sub-forum, but alas didn't find the context you provided. I completely understand now. I think. Well, I most certainly do within the confines of this particular thread and the drift that appears to have started some time before my dandelion seed alighted here.

If I have further questions (which is likely, being as it's me) about what's appropriate, who do i ask? If I missed the guidance I seek altogether, I'll be embarrassed but also grateful if you point it out.


O
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Old 01-03-2020, 11:27 AM
  # 59 (permalink)  
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MesaMan, I'm sorry for any offence caused. Moderators, please feel free to delete my posts in this thread.
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Old 01-03-2020, 12:25 PM
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No worries whatsoever by me.

Usually, going back to read the OP calibrates us as to original intent. Except when I forget to do that in my old age. The upside to old age? I'm offense-proof!
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