AA and God(spiritualism) for an Atheist
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 225
I'm back after over 9 years! Here is my take on the question. (Describing pre covid.)
In Britain we actually have a different AA from yours but (I think) the same Big Book and probably the same 12 x 12.
We don't say the Lord's Prayer and we weren't holding hands in most meetings (only a few).
I consider myself one of "we agnostics". In Britain that is taken as including atheists and in AA I don't find them antagonistic towards anyone.
My take on G.O.D. is Good Orderly Direction and for those that have suffered bullying I talk about the finger post by the library that says bus station that way, park that way, conference centre that way. We go where we want, when we want, if we want, how much we want, why we want. In my drinking time I couldn't do what I wanted even if it was months between binges, if I even dared think of what I wanted.
As to Higher Power I tilt my head backward so my nose is pointing straight up. Then I say to myself it is about what is beyond the end of my own nose.
As to illness an earlier sponsor showed me that we only trigger it if we ingest alcohol which we of this type aren't physically equipped to safely digest; when I abstain I go into remission so if I underpin that behaviour a day at a time I get a daily reprieve.
With the help of sponsors it has taken me 13 and a half years to get to Step 11.
In my literature it wisely warns me to avoid "excitement".
I had to conclude laboriously, that I had to bypass the bit about consulting ministers and rabbis (I knew quite a few of those.) Fortunately religions as such haven't become a feature of meetings (some people only mention theirs in passing).
As to spiritual I get from the Big Book that the steps are simply about what might be thought invisible things - this is simply what the weird allusions to Jung and James tell me. I'm keeping it simple and that's just me!
(I would write an additional text for use alongside.)
So a spiritual programme is simply one that deals in relationships, dynamics, boundaries, managing my thinking activities (my favourite hobby), decision taking, taste, discretion, initiative.
(Dictionaries give umpteen extremely divergent meanings for most words.)
My favourite slogan cards are: Give Time Time and Think Think Think!
In Britain we actually have a different AA from yours but (I think) the same Big Book and probably the same 12 x 12.
We don't say the Lord's Prayer and we weren't holding hands in most meetings (only a few).
I consider myself one of "we agnostics". In Britain that is taken as including atheists and in AA I don't find them antagonistic towards anyone.
My take on G.O.D. is Good Orderly Direction and for those that have suffered bullying I talk about the finger post by the library that says bus station that way, park that way, conference centre that way. We go where we want, when we want, if we want, how much we want, why we want. In my drinking time I couldn't do what I wanted even if it was months between binges, if I even dared think of what I wanted.
As to Higher Power I tilt my head backward so my nose is pointing straight up. Then I say to myself it is about what is beyond the end of my own nose.
As to illness an earlier sponsor showed me that we only trigger it if we ingest alcohol which we of this type aren't physically equipped to safely digest; when I abstain I go into remission so if I underpin that behaviour a day at a time I get a daily reprieve.
With the help of sponsors it has taken me 13 and a half years to get to Step 11.
In my literature it wisely warns me to avoid "excitement".
I had to conclude laboriously, that I had to bypass the bit about consulting ministers and rabbis (I knew quite a few of those.) Fortunately religions as such haven't become a feature of meetings (some people only mention theirs in passing).
As to spiritual I get from the Big Book that the steps are simply about what might be thought invisible things - this is simply what the weird allusions to Jung and James tell me. I'm keeping it simple and that's just me!
(I would write an additional text for use alongside.)
So a spiritual programme is simply one that deals in relationships, dynamics, boundaries, managing my thinking activities (my favourite hobby), decision taking, taste, discretion, initiative.
(Dictionaries give umpteen extremely divergent meanings for most words.)
My favourite slogan cards are: Give Time Time and Think Think Think!
Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Bellingham
Posts: 513
I never had a higher problem with the HP thing. In NYC there are lots of atheists in the rooms. I am agnostic. My bjection though is two fold. A) it is set up to accept everyone and lead them around to a more uniform conception of HP, and then deny that this is going on. I think you can see this is the various dogmas, the literature, the scholarship B) if it were so simple as picking and choosing a HP and using what works, leaving the rest. But it isn't. Without enough emphasis on personal freedom, there is mission creep and eventually I found myself entertaining all sorts of dogmas. It's the tertiary stuff that always constitutes the religion. Usually not the core beliefs, in this case, that there are things outside of ourselves, a universe, a world, a god for some, that we can contemplate as a way of achieving perspective.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 2,909
Don't let your perceptions of other people's and institutions' perceptions hinder you on your journey. Perceptions are not truth. Truth is like the moon, and perceptions are like my finger. I can point to the moon with my finger, but my finger is not the moon. Do I need my finger to see the moon?
Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,775
Originally Posted by davaidavai 
I never had a higher problem with the HP thing. In NYC there are lots of atheists in the rooms. I am agnostic. My bjection though is two fold. A) it is set up to accept everyone and lead them around to a more uniform conception of HP, and then deny that this is going on. I think you can see this is the various dogmas, the literature, the scholarship B) if it were so simple as picking and choosing a HP and using what works, leaving the rest. But it isn't. Without enough emphasis on personal freedom, there is mission creep and eventually I found myself entertaining all sorts of dogmas. It's the tertiary stuff that always constitutes the religion. Usually not the core beliefs, in this case, that there are things outside of ourselves, a universe, a world, a god for some, that we can contemplate as a way of achieving perspective.
When it comes a higher power and the AA heavy hitters I was fortunate to have had a lot of religious training as a kid.
I enjoyed religion class and believe in God. However, there were some who preached hard that caused me to tuned out.
When I was new in AA and a few in the rooms started pushing .. I did the same but I never felt a need to leave AA.
I just stayed away from certain people and certain meetings. Not good, not bad. Just not for me.
I believe if B. Wilson were alive today he's say to thine own self be true and as long as one is being honest... it's all good.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,775
Correction: I was fortunate to have had a lot of religious study as a kid.
(Although at times it did seem like training. I recall nervously having to read a religious passage in front of class. I blew it by saying right at the end, "This is NOT the word of God" which cause the class to burst out laughing and Nun to look at me with daggers in her eyes.)
(Although at times it did seem like training. I recall nervously having to read a religious passage in front of class. I blew it by saying right at the end, "This is NOT the word of God" which cause the class to burst out laughing and Nun to look at me with daggers in her eyes.)
~sb
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: MD
Posts: 15,967
your "higher power" could be the universe (something's keeping your heart beating) or Love..... as long as you are not your own higher power.....
Your "spirituality" is just being useful to others
Simple. Maybe ask the powers that be to give you the willingness to be willing to set aside your old beliefs.
Find a sponsor, have discussions & work those 12 little steps! See what happens after!
Your "spirituality" is just being useful to others
Simple. Maybe ask the powers that be to give you the willingness to be willing to set aside your old beliefs.
Find a sponsor, have discussions & work those 12 little steps! See what happens after!
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