no meetings still sober
waking down
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,641
You know what I think would be really cool? A 12 Step hiking or walking club. Instead of sitting in a circle, just meet regularly at a specific location and walk for an hour in the woods or something, and have our conversations side-by-side while we enjoy nature and get a little exercise. I'd be down with that. Less boxed in, literally and figuratively. Anybody know of groups like that?
I don't go to meetings (AA) anymore because after several years I have found them to be more harmful to me than helpful. I feel much better now! I felt like the meetings just triggered me & kept me immersed in shame & guilt. It feels so good to be free of them!
Mike, the more I think about my meeting experiences and our recent discussions, plus your above post - I think the meetings have changed format and perhaps, are not as beneficial. I've said recently to both you and Lady Blue, had I experienced what you both did in meetings, then I may have benefited.
I resently read an article by a psychologist who specialised in alcoholism, written in 1963. His opinion was that the, then, current meetings had altered format and were more dogmatic, he referred to the original meetings, which he said involved back and forth discussions, much as you wrote above. Maybe some grass roots thinking could help some folks more?
Edited to add: Mike, have you heard about the "Back to Basics" AA meetings and if so, do they involve more interaction?
I resently read an article by a psychologist who specialised in alcoholism, written in 1963. His opinion was that the, then, current meetings had altered format and were more dogmatic, he referred to the original meetings, which he said involved back and forth discussions, much as you wrote above. Maybe some grass roots thinking could help some folks more?
Edited to add: Mike, have you heard about the "Back to Basics" AA meetings and if so, do they involve more interaction?
Interaction is encouraged between newcomer and sharing partner/sponsor, who work together between the meetings to get the steps done. The format takes all twelve steps in four weeks, and strangely, at the ones I attended, there were always way more newcomers wanting to take the steps than there were sponsors willing to help them. This is tragic on several levels.
Possibly it is the influence of the rehab industry. In my how town, rehab became a subtsitute for the steps, and there are an awful lot of long term members who do not know how to take someone through the steps. They just did the rehab treatment which might have involved some steps, and then went tol ots of meetings as instructed.
I digress. In b2b the idea is that the newcomer will return as a sharing partner and help some one else through the steps, therby completing the steps.
The format is based on a practice of some groups in the 1940s. They seemed to have a good success rate at the time.
I should add the rider that these groups are not particularly popular among the AA establishment, hence more newcomers than there are sponsors willing to help.
My guess is they are unpopular because they show up the lack of knowledge of the older members. This was the case for me. I learnt a great deal through the classes. Many of my contemporaries simply refused to be involved- contempt prior to investigation, or pride perhaps?
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: "I'm not lost for I know where I am. But however, where I am may be lost ..."
Posts: 5,273
Originally Posted by zerothehero
Anybody know of groups like that?
Originally Posted by Gottalife
The format takes all twelve steps in four weeks,
The Wally P. format is actually all 12 steps in four hours. That can be spread over weeks, days, or even done in one day. I attended a four hour b2b day course years ago. The b2b method focuses intensely and solely on the actual steps of the program itself, without any fluff, that's for sure. No treatment center jargon, no psycho-babble. Not the one I attended anyway.
At the start there is a guide to what is expected. One of those is that both new comer and sharing partner will attend all four classes over the next four weeks. The sessions are so well written that each session runs almost exactly for one hour.
Big book sponsorship four hour steps is based on this, but does have a format that gets you through the steps in that four hour time zone, but it does it by making a start on step four, then moving on. Step five is not done at either meeting.
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Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 770
You know what I think would be really cool? A 12 Step hiking or walking club. Instead of sitting in a circle, just meet regularly at a specific location and walk for an hour in the woods or something, and have our conversations side-by-side while we enjoy nature and get a little exercise. I'd be down with that. Less boxed in, literally and figuratively. Anybody know of groups like that?
Hey, I know this thread is a few months old but if you are still reading this I know that a lot of refuge recovery groups have hiking meetings. If they are available in your area you may want to check them out, Buddhist based.
waking down
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,641
I've checked it out and read Noah Levine's book by that title. None in my area, but thanks.
You know what I think would be really cool? A 12 Step hiking or walking club. Instead of sitting in a circle, just meet regularly at a specific location and walk for an hour in the woods or something, and have our conversations side-by-side while we enjoy nature and get a little exercise. I'd be down with that. Less boxed in, literally and figuratively. Anybody know of groups like that?
there used to be a traveling campfire meetings in the spring and summer up where i got sober. i think it was sunday nite and at a different persons house weekly.the regular meeting still took place at the meeting location,too. wouldnt want to not be there if a newcomer showed up or if sitting by a campfire wasnt everyones cup or tea.
theres all kinds of events groups set up outside of the rooms.
no meetings that i know of, but quite regularly everywhere members of AA get together outside of meetings and do those kind of things.
there used to be a traveling campfire meetings in the spring and summer up where i got sober. i think it was sunday nite and at a different persons house weekly.the regular meeting still took place at the meeting location,too. wouldnt want to not be there if a newcomer showed up or if sitting by a campfire wasnt everyones cup or tea.
theres all kinds of events groups set up outside of the rooms.
there used to be a traveling campfire meetings in the spring and summer up where i got sober. i think it was sunday nite and at a different persons house weekly.the regular meeting still took place at the meeting location,too. wouldnt want to not be there if a newcomer showed up or if sitting by a campfire wasnt everyones cup or tea.
theres all kinds of events groups set up outside of the rooms.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,775
Everyone has their own path. Some find meetings to be essential, while others have never been to one, and have found success through other outlets.
Though don't let your guard down thinking it seems too easy, it still takes hard work no matter what you choose to stay down the right road.
Though don't let your guard down thinking it seems too easy, it still takes hard work no matter what you choose to stay down the right road.
I know members who hide in the rooms of aa.
The rooms act as a comfort zone.
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Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 9
Meeting makers make it... I truly believe that. And I believe it because I've tried weening off meetings before. 4 times to be exact. Each of them resulted in relapse after several years of sobriety. It's not the meetings per se that keep you sober. But it's the fellowship. I need other people in recovery surrounding me in order for me to stay sober. I need to help others for me to stay sober. I need to see the newly sober person who stumbles into the door and cries at the table to remind me that my last drink/drug/whatever actually was THAT bad.
People with cancer need chemo. People with strokes need blood thinners. People with diabetes need insulin. People with addiction need meetings.
People with cancer need chemo. People with strokes need blood thinners. People with diabetes need insulin. People with addiction need meetings.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,775
Meeting makers make it... I truly believe that. And I believe it because I've tried weening off meetings before. 4 times to be exact. Each of them resulted in relapse after several years of sobriety. It's not the meetings per se that keep you sober. But it's the fellowship. I need other people in recovery surrounding me in order for me to stay sober. I need to help others for me to stay sober. I need to see the newly sober person who stumbles into the door and cries at the table to remind me that my last drink/drug/whatever actually was THAT bad.
People with cancer need chemo. People with strokes need blood thinners. People with diabetes need insulin. People with addiction need meetings.
People with cancer need chemo. People with strokes need blood thinners. People with diabetes need insulin. People with addiction need meetings.
Personally I feel the "secret" to sobriety is to keep sobriety close. You can go to meetings, work on your steps, post on SR or any combination which you feel comfortable.
The key is keeping sobriety fresh. Not forgetting.
In my 25 years in AA I have rarely heard of someone with a lot of sober time simply decide to pick up a drink after a meeting, doing step work or whatever.
What I usually hear is they got busy with life and simply drifted away from what was working for them.
Then one day they are fishing and someone sits next to them and offers a beer... They take the beer and there goes 19 years of sobriety.
What happened is they forgot. They forgot they are an alcoholic.
I know its not the meetings that keep me sober. I have seen people with time pick up when life throws something at them, that do way more meetings than I do, yet when the same issues crop up in my life it doesn't occur to me to drink. it isn't the steps either. That journey connected me with the Power of my understanding which did for me what I could not do for myself. The Power was an active participant in my recovery just as It is in my continuing sobriety. It has kept me sober.
It is an oversimplification to say that people drink because they drift away from meetings. We need to know why they left. When I started a new group a few years back we had a number of people with reasonable time, like 2-3 years turn up. The meeting was a serious big book study group. We study the book and try and put waht we learn into practice in our daily lives. It is a lot different to middle of the road AA.
"If you are as alcholic as we were, we believe there is no middle of the road solution" " Half measures availed us nothing"
The folks that turned up at our group expressed amazement at what they were hearing - from the book. Nobody had told them about this stuff. They said they had been on the verge of leaving AA because after 2 - 3 years of meetings, and doing what they were told Nothing had changed. AA wasn't working.
They had been told meeting makers make it. No rush with the steps, keep coming back, don't drink & go to meetings, tale what you like, it's all suggested anyway, all the dumb middle of the road cliches . And it wasn't working. Half measures did indeed avail them nothing, the middle of the road solution they were being presented with turned out to be an illusion.
'Nothing short of intensive action on the 12 steps as a way of life will bring about the much desired result."
BTW people often think I am religious. Yesterday I went to my first ever church service that wasn't a funeral or a wedding. It was OK, but I don't think I will go back.
It is an oversimplification to say that people drink because they drift away from meetings. We need to know why they left. When I started a new group a few years back we had a number of people with reasonable time, like 2-3 years turn up. The meeting was a serious big book study group. We study the book and try and put waht we learn into practice in our daily lives. It is a lot different to middle of the road AA.
"If you are as alcholic as we were, we believe there is no middle of the road solution" " Half measures availed us nothing"
The folks that turned up at our group expressed amazement at what they were hearing - from the book. Nobody had told them about this stuff. They said they had been on the verge of leaving AA because after 2 - 3 years of meetings, and doing what they were told Nothing had changed. AA wasn't working.
They had been told meeting makers make it. No rush with the steps, keep coming back, don't drink & go to meetings, tale what you like, it's all suggested anyway, all the dumb middle of the road cliches . And it wasn't working. Half measures did indeed avail them nothing, the middle of the road solution they were being presented with turned out to be an illusion.
'Nothing short of intensive action on the 12 steps as a way of life will bring about the much desired result."
BTW people often think I am religious. Yesterday I went to my first ever church service that wasn't a funeral or a wedding. It was OK, but I don't think I will go back.
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Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,775
I know its not the meetings that keep me sober. I have seen people with time pick up when life throws something at them, that do way more meetings than I do, yet when the same issues crop up in my life it doesn't occur to me to drink. it isn't the steps either. That journey connected me with the Power of my understanding which did for me what I could not do for myself. The Power was an active participant in my recovery just as It is in my continuing sobriety. It has kept me sober.
It is an oversimplification to say that people drink because they drift away from meetings. We need to know why they left. When I started a new group a few years back we had a number of people with reasonable time, like 2-3 years turn up. The meeting was a serious big book study group. We study the book and try and put waht we learn into practice in our daily lives. It is a lot different to middle of the road AA.
"If you are as alcholic as we were, we believe there is no middle of the road solution" " Half measures availed us nothing"
The folks that turned up at our group expressed amazement at what they were hearing - from the book. Nobody had told them about this stuff. They said they had been on the verge of leaving AA because after 2 - 3 years of meetings, and doing what they were told Nothing had changed. AA wasn't working.
They had been told meeting makers make it. No rush with the steps, keep coming back, don't drink & go to meetings, tale what you like, it's all suggested anyway, all the dumb middle of the road cliches . And it wasn't working. Half measures did indeed avail them nothing, the middle of the road solution they were being presented with turned out to be an illusion.
'Nothing short of intensive action on the 12 steps as a way of life will bring about the much desired result."
BTW people often think I am religious. Yesterday I went to my first ever church service that wasn't a funeral or a wedding. It was OK, but I don't think I will go back.
It is an oversimplification to say that people drink because they drift away from meetings. We need to know why they left. When I started a new group a few years back we had a number of people with reasonable time, like 2-3 years turn up. The meeting was a serious big book study group. We study the book and try and put waht we learn into practice in our daily lives. It is a lot different to middle of the road AA.
"If you are as alcholic as we were, we believe there is no middle of the road solution" " Half measures availed us nothing"
The folks that turned up at our group expressed amazement at what they were hearing - from the book. Nobody had told them about this stuff. They said they had been on the verge of leaving AA because after 2 - 3 years of meetings, and doing what they were told Nothing had changed. AA wasn't working.
They had been told meeting makers make it. No rush with the steps, keep coming back, don't drink & go to meetings, tale what you like, it's all suggested anyway, all the dumb middle of the road cliches . And it wasn't working. Half measures did indeed avail them nothing, the middle of the road solution they were being presented with turned out to be an illusion.
'Nothing short of intensive action on the 12 steps as a way of life will bring about the much desired result."
BTW people often think I am religious. Yesterday I went to my first ever church service that wasn't a funeral or a wedding. It was OK, but I don't think I will go back.
They get complacent. They get busy with life and drift away from meetings or working with others or whatever it was they had been doing which kept sobriety out front.
This is something I've repeatedly heard by those with time under their belt who picked up.
It's rarely planned. It just happened.
The folks in my example were absolutely not complacent. They had been following the advice they had been given in good faith for a good period of time and nothing had changed. In their experience as they shared it with me, AA was not working and faced with that fact they were about to make a conscious decision to leave.
They were not fading away, slacking off about their recovery. Sobriety was still their number one objective, it was just that they had no evidence to suggest that AA, as they were experiencing it, was going to I’m prove their lives.
Bill raised this exact concern years ago. Roughly quoting him about AA failures, he suggested that perhaps these newcomers were not getting the same kind of sponsorship that the earlier members got. They did nor fail at AA, AA failed them .
They were not fading away, slacking off about their recovery. Sobriety was still their number one objective, it was just that they had no evidence to suggest that AA, as they were experiencing it, was going to I’m prove their lives.
Bill raised this exact concern years ago. Roughly quoting him about AA failures, he suggested that perhaps these newcomers were not getting the same kind of sponsorship that the earlier members got. They did nor fail at AA, AA failed them .
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Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 572
As it relates to me, meetings allow me to interact with people, when I want to, and to different degrees. Social interaction is healthy, generally speaking. I think to the extent that I benefit from the social interaction, meetings 'keep' me sober. Otherwise, I don't know how accurate it is that meeting makers make it.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,775
The folks in my example were absolutely not complacent. They had been following the advice they had been given in good faith for a good period of time and nothing had changed. In their experience as they shared it with me, AA was not working and faced with that fact they were about to make a conscious decision to leave.
They were not fading away, slacking off about their recovery. Sobriety was still their number one objective, it was just that they had no evidence to suggest that AA, as they were experiencing it, was going to I’m prove their lives.
Bill raised this exact concern years ago. Roughly quoting him about AA failures, he suggested that perhaps these newcomers were not getting the same kind of sponsorship that the earlier members got. They did nor fail at AA, AA failed them .
They were not fading away, slacking off about their recovery. Sobriety was still their number one objective, it was just that they had no evidence to suggest that AA, as they were experiencing it, was going to I’m prove their lives.
Bill raised this exact concern years ago. Roughly quoting him about AA failures, he suggested that perhaps these newcomers were not getting the same kind of sponsorship that the earlier members got. They did nor fail at AA, AA failed them .
I am referring to those in the program who suddenly picked up a drink after years of sobriety.
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