Atheist In Recovery
quat
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: terra (mostly)firma
Posts: 4,823
Originally Posted by JeffreyAK 
I don't know Heisenberg's religious philosophy, but I think he meant that the uncertainty principle is an objective reality, a fundamental limitation that is a consequence of quantum mechanics and the wave nature of everything in the universe. It does not arise from limitations on our human ability to make precise measurements, or any inability to make truly non-perturbative measurements.
As far as we know, it is a fundamental limitation based on every experiment we can throw at it, but we also know that quantum mechanics can't be quite correct since it's not consistent on a number of levels with general relativity, so there's a more-correct theory out there somewhere that reduces to general relativity and to quantum mechanics in the regimes of very large and massive, and very very small.
That incidentally is one of the challenges of the Big Bang, because in the earliest instances (whatever exactly that means) the universe was both extremely massive and extremely small - we don't have a basic theory of the physics for such an environment, so physics as we know it breaks down, and even if we understood enough to ask meaningful questions, we don't know how to answer them. More stuff to hurt the brain.
As far as we know, it is a fundamental limitation based on every experiment we can throw at it, but we also know that quantum mechanics can't be quite correct since it's not consistent on a number of levels with general relativity, so there's a more-correct theory out there somewhere that reduces to general relativity and to quantum mechanics in the regimes of very large and massive, and very very small.
That incidentally is one of the challenges of the Big Bang, because in the earliest instances (whatever exactly that means) the universe was both extremely massive and extremely small - we don't have a basic theory of the physics for such an environment, so physics as we know it breaks down, and even if we understood enough to ask meaningful questions, we don't know how to answer them. More stuff to hurt the brain.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Central America/Florida USA
Posts: 4,064
Originally Posted by IvanMike
Yes. I'm a no fooling Dawkins category 6 de facto atheist.
We get to recover too. .
We get to recover too. .
It's good to know AA is there...just in case you need support there is no reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
That said, I think being an atheist has been a huge bonus for me in recovery. This is my one shot at life. My one chance to do something as bigsombrero. Sitting on my couch watching reruns of SportCenter 5x per day while drinking vodka wasn't really helping me live life to the fullest. Being sober as an atheist is great, you appreciate every moment. The reality of your life is NOW. Live it. Be conscious, be present.
Reach Out and Touch Faith
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: On a Sailboat
Posts: 3,871
Originally Posted by fred59
I really like Smart Recovery the cross talk is really inspiring, I have shared more in the last 4 months at Smart than the previous 4 years in AA meetings
waking down
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,641
I went to my first SMART meeting a couple of weeks ago and was very impressed. The CBT focus (rather than spiritual focus) was so logical and helpful. Instead of saying a higher power is going to take away our shortcomings, SMART provides actual tools for self-improvement.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: MD
Posts: 658
12 Step programs emphasize the need for people to do the program work to get the results- those that sit around and wait for their higher power to work generally wait in vain. Its unfortunate that the higher power question tends to cause so much discord.
waking down
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,641
Originally Posted by schnappi99
12 Step programs emphasize the need for people to do the program work to get the results- those that sit around and wait for their higher power to work generally wait in vain. Its unfortunate that the higher power question tends to cause so much discord.
Sober Alcoholic
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,539
The steps don't cause discord. People do. The steps are a combination of changing ones perspective and of taking actions, and many individuals benefit from both.
The steps are suggestions. There's no need to quibble about them, unless you have the need. But if you do, take responsibility for the your actions. Don't blame it on the suggestion.
Nothing in AA is required except a desire to stop drinking.
The steps are suggestions. There's no need to quibble about them, unless you have the need. But if you do, take responsibility for the your actions. Don't blame it on the suggestion.
Nothing in AA is required except a desire to stop drinking.
waking down
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,641
Originally Posted by awuh1
The steps don't cause discord. People do. The steps are a combination of changing ones perspective and of taking actions, and many individuals benefit from both.
The steps are suggestions. There's no need to quibble about them, unless you have the need. But if you do, take responsibility for the your actions. Don't blame it on the suggestion.
Nothing in AA is required except a desire to stop drinking.
The steps are suggestions. There's no need to quibble about them, unless you have the need. But if you do, take responsibility for the your actions. Don't blame it on the suggestion.
Nothing in AA is required except a desire to stop drinking.
"People who are new to AA are not asked to accept or follow these Twelve Steps in their entirety if they feel unwilling or unable to do so.
"They will usually be asked to keep an open mind, to attend meetings at which recovered alcoholics describe their personal experiences in achieving sobriety, and to read AA literature describing and interpreting the AA program."
Unfortunately, this has not been my experience.
Sober Alcoholic
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,539
I agree Zero. People have a way of putting their own spin on things and sometimes their interpretations are not helpful. That's why it's important to point out things such as you quoted from the literature. I've had to do this more times than I can count.
It hurts my popularity in some circles. Too bad.
It hurts my popularity in some circles. Too bad.
waking down
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,641
Originally Posted by graced333
As i slowly wake up from my decades long dark drunk/benzo sleep, I am finding the writings of the Buddha to be helping me find my way and stay on the path of true recovery.
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