BlueFairy

Was disappointed it was based on the 12 step program---that wasn't specified on the meetup site (it was just suggested to be a secular support group). 7 people were there, 1 was just walking by and had some definite mental issues, another didn't have a problem with alcohol, just a long time addiction to meth--very rough. Talked about our atheism more than the alcohol, which was nice but the sane people there seemed to be years off the juice--I had a hard time relating I guess. Had a Luciferian also show up was glad for this group as I was able to keep myself in check and be nice. My kneejerk reaction to this religion is-- I kind of get the resistance to christianity but believing in it itself is an homage to christianity... but thanks to a previous poster I had gained a bit of knowledge and kind of view it in the same way as wicca (much less damaging than christianity)--except that I know with wicca the most important thing is Harm None. So--in conclusion I guess I'm not too upset anymore I can't get to these meetings every week-- this week was just a fluke. Just wish I could get into the stupid chatroom on here...

zerothehero

BF, you might find the article on SR's homepage about Buddhism helpful. I'm not a theist and I'm not really atheist, but I've been turned off by the Lord's Prayer at AA meetings - and all the god talk. The philosophical perspective spelled out in the Four Noble Truths and Eight Fold Path help me with my addictions and with life, in general. I didn't really start considering myself a Buddhist until I had been meditating most days for over a year. I think I get it now. No god. Just being. There are Buddhist 12-Step and Refuge Recovery (Buddhist but not 12-Step) meetings in many cities. I live a rural existence so I haven't attended any, but I would imagine they focus more on the path and not so much on issues related to whether or not there is a god or higher power. We are our own higher power.

biminiblue

Why can't you get into the chatroom?

Have you checked the Technical section for threads on "How To"?

All you need is Java - a simple download.

(sorry, I know this thread isn't about that - if you've already tried, apologies.)

JeffreyAK

When I click on the chat room, I get this:

Capture.JPG

No way in the world I'm going to click "run", with that warning. Maybe it's fine, but I'm not going to give anything "unrestricted access".

MythOfSisyphus

I haven't had much luck getting Chat to work, either.

D122y

The difference between SR and a face to face? Never been to an aa meeting yet, but I talked to some folks here...

Sr saves time and gas money.

Sr lacks the intimate discussion.

Sr doesn't give chips.

What else?

BlueFairy

Chat says this site uses a plug in java that is not supported. I downloaded java--didn't make any difference.

I like some of the stuff about buddhism just like I love wicca--I'm just kind of a long time atheist. Was wiccan for years.

greens

Are there any smart recovery meetings in your area bluefairy?

Dee74

I moved the thread as 12 step topics are not allowed in our Secular Connections forum.

There were some issues with the chat client recently - nothing to do with SR.

D

emilynghiem

Dear BlueFairy
From the experiences and wisdom of both my Atheist and Christian friends who offer counseling and healing work, the common factor and process is based on Forgiveness. My Atheist friend uses a combination of Buddhist meditation with AA; my Christian friends uses a very powerful gift in deliverance to forgive and heal "generational" issues that otherwise keep people stuck in a rut.

Whatever works for you, everyone's path and approach is different anyway. No two Christians, no two Atheists or Buddhists or any group member apply things exactly the same, but use a variation or combination of help from different sources.

I posted the Steps of Forgiveness on a another thread that are fairly secular and explain the same process.

It's all about releasing and forgiving things we carry from the past so they don't keep projecting and repeating. Christianity just focuses on centralizing and uniting all these prayers to break the cycle for everyone at once, all under one authority, but it's the same process as the Buddhists teach about karma repeating until the cycle is broken.

Christ Jesus just means Restorative Justice which even atheists and secular humanists believe in but talk about in secular terms. It's the same process of achieving Justice and Peace to heal all people and all relations inside and out, starting locally and working globally.

The key factor I've found in all recovery and therapy is Forgiveness.

As long as you can forgive conflicts, issues and any negatives that come up in your process, then you can move forward.

Here is one of the links to Steps to Forgiveness if this helps:
ADHESIONS Messages for March, 2001: Worldwide Forgiveness Alliance: Steps to Forgiveness

zerothehero

I've been reading/working Kevin Griffin's Buddhism and the Twelve Steps workbook and have to say that his interpretation of some of the steps stretch the original meaning to a point where I would guess many die hard 12 steppers would say he's missing the point. Still, there is value in the steps if we're willing to stretch the whole higher power thing. I don't go to AA meetings, BTW, or rather, I should say I've gone half a dozen times in the past 20 months of sobriety.

Because I have been using mindfulness and meditation in my recovery, I'm okay with the idea that my "higher" power is the process or practice (though higher or lower is relative; it's more a power other than myself). And the idea of powerlessness, as Griffin points out, extends beyond alcohol to patterns of thought and more. All I have to do is sit in meditation for a few seconds and admit I do not have complete power over my thoughts, but my thoughts are not alcohol. And Griffin's discussion about turning over our lives and our will is somewhat laughable, really, but I can admit that I've turned my life over to the practice of mindfulness (if not my will). Still, the book has value.

So, I've come to the conclusion that secular 12 step approaches are really revised 12 step approaches. I like Noah Levine's Refuge Recovery approach. He doesn't recommend abandoning the 12 Steps (probably because he says they helped him despite his nontheism), but he did create his own steps that, rather than try to revise the original 12 Steps, he just created a process based on the Four Noble Truths and Eight Fold Path. Actually, he didn't create it; it's basic Buddhism 101.

Another good book is The Mindfulness Workbook for Addiction. They don't address the 12 Steps directly, or Buddhism for that matter. All these approaches have similar themes that overlap with the 12 Steps in one way or another.

The trick is finding a community or sangha with which you're comfortable. That can be a trick, but it seems to help to suspend judgement, at least while connecting with folks. I'm okay with Shambhala because though it was founded by a Tibetan Buddhist who drank himself to death, the practice was designed specifically for Westerners, and it's nontheistic, but I'm hours from the nearest Shambhala center, so I still feel very much on my own out here.

schnappi99

I've not found the slightest conflict between my Buddhist practice and the 12 Step work (Alanon, I have a Catholic sponsor- he doesn't have an issue with a "non-God" higher power). But with respect to Buddhism and 12-Step work, I found I needed the very clear and direct statements of the 12-Step to make progress. My higher power is there for the prayer and meditation work. Its pretty interesting that getting serious with the 12 step "practicing these principles.." also means getting serious with my Buddhist practice. I just shared an experience in front of about 100 of them without feeling more than a little anxious.. even a year ago sharing in front of the 10 or so people in my Alanon homegroup tied me in knots.

I prefer the orthodox 12-Steps right out of the BB, interpretations out of the 12-and-12 and my Alanon books. I substitute Buddhism whenever they say God.. but thats just me. OTOH I would stay away from any meeting or member that makes a production out of another's higher power, I've heard of quite a few out there though I've not run into one yet.

RebellionDog

I attend quite a few agnostic/freethinker AA groups and I visit them when I travel (New York, Toronto, LA, Chicago). In 2009 the first one started in Toronto and now there are 11 meeting nights/days in the Greater Toronto Area. I think there are over 300 AA meetings (without prayer/religion) around the world.

Of course, there are many more atheist and unconventional members who, while don't subscribe to a personal higher power, feel free to doubt to their hearts content at traditional AA meetings. But for some, some who feel proselytized to, the no prayer-agnostic AA is a safe haven.

There is more and more literature for nonbelievers in and out of 12-Steps recovery circles. Some atheists dismiss the 12-Steps completely, some translate them into secular language. The Steps aren't sacred, although zealots would disagree with me on that one.