samseb5351

Hallucinations is the book I was talking about, by Oliver Sacks.

How our brains under varying conditions create hallucinations.

Craaig

I won't quibble about my judgementalism, though the dictionary definitions of "supernatural" don't seem judgemental to me. A generalization about "scientific evidence" is, to me, as unconvincing as unsubstantiated "dreams by the dead," no matter how detailed they may be. (could the patient still "remember" the serial number when he left the hospital?).
My point in writing the "...Live With It" piece was to highlight the pointlessness of "fear of death," or, indeed, of anything else. Being present and dealing with what is here and now is a fearless pursuit, and allows us to fulfill our primary purpose, to be useful.
I appreciate the discussion, but question its value to others. Then again, what's the point if I can't have a little fun.

samseb5351

Yes your right this thread seems to be more about the reality of dying and how Secular/Atheist folks deal with that reality. For me Fear of dying can really only be felt while I am alive, which is kind of ironic. I suppose for me I would love to be on this planet as long as possible and am annoyed it will stop one day. I do have some fears of pain in death or loss of dignity or leaving my family But actually being Dead I want have a functioning brain to have any fear.

Craaig

Fear is only possible if I send my thoughts to the future, a nonexistent venue. To the degree that I deal with the present and do the next indicated thing, I am free of fear.
That, to me, is the point. The ego trip of what if's serves no one. Pointless. Growth is a now activity, usefulness is a now activity, patience, tolerance, kindliness and love, acceptance and forgiveness are present moment concepts. There are no "gonna's" in any of these. They are, to me, the spiritual concepts of recovery.

silentrun

I should be dead already. I'm over it. I consider this the bonus round. Woohoo!!!

awuh1

samseb, Hallucinations are by definition experiences that are not real. In other words they are unverified perceptions. This fits very well for seeing lights, tunnels and dead relatives during a near death experience, but not so well in the case of a then dead individual who later accurately reports of the conversations the ER staff working on their dead body. Do I still need to read the book?

Craaig, I agree that fear is often unfounded, even silly. All the more so when based on poor assumptions. I was just responding to the example you used. In line with that, I'll continue to wait for any sort of an explanation (scientific or otherwise) of these verified perceptions from the then dead. Failing that, there's just one less thing to worry about.

Soberwolf

Bushido ?

Itchy

Hey the thread is good in and of itself. I believe that there is a universe and that the laws of conservations of energy and matter also have to bow to entropy. I do not believe in an afterlife OR we just stop, and believe either way is possible. My spirit energy might be released to the universe and my matter decomposed to fertilizer and there may be no survival of the personality. Spinoza, the old Sephardic Philosopher and glass grinder, towards the end of his life moved from a belief in the traditional Judeo/Christian God, to a belief that there is a spirit but no personality survival after death.

Here is how I deal with the thought of my death. There either is a God and pearly gates and angels to be seen on high, or not. I absolutely do not believe in a vengeful god or God, and do not believe if one exists, that she would have made a hell. But as has been said we will find out one day.

Our condition on that day has been touched on, with fears of being dependent or in pain, with a long drawn out illness.

I believe if there is an afterlife with survival of the personality, the exclusionary religious people will be totally shocked to see everyone else there. If there is no afterlife then my last moments are, well, my last! I don't want to waste them terrified and screaming in fear inside. I want to savor every second.

So I hope for a gentle death but at least hope to be conscious. The NDE with real death will then happen as a hormonal or real event, or it stops. While I am comfortable with my own mortality, I do want to make it clear that death is the greatest adventure! Don't get me wrong, I do not want to die one second sooner than I can help. But if there is no afterlife that NDE will be our last moments. I want to be aware, calm and experience the whole thing from start to finish. Not to show courage, but simply because if I am terrified I will miss the steps and that might account for the NDE stories about total confusion on the other side. If it is indeed the end the brain will have some kind hallucinatory show for me and I would like to watch the whole thing.

I see it this way. If it is the end I want to experience the last moments I exist. If there is more, any kind of afterlife, I want to see the whole transition.

Either way I doubt my complete and utter lack of belief in any religion will have any bearing on the results.

I have suspended my belief one way or the other, and put off trying to imagine it until I can experience it. I do not want to be so terrified I cannot experience every drop of my last few seconds on earth, regardless of what, if anything comes after. I believe it is the trip, not the destination even in death.


My generation, faced as it grew with a choice between religious belief and existential despair, chose marijuana. Now we are in our Cabernet stage.
Peggy Noonan

I've never met a healthy person who worried much about his health or a good person who worried much about his soul.
Bernard Haldane

I am halfway through Genesis, and quite appalled by the disgraceful behavior of all the characters involved, including God.
J. R. Ackerley

If there really is a God who created the entire universe with all of its glories, and He decides to deliver a message to humanity, He WILL NOT use, as His messenger, a person on cable TV with a bad hairstyle.
Dave Barry

The Bible contains six admonishments to homosexuals, and 362 to heterosexuals. This doesn't mean God doesn't love heterosexuals, it's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavner

To get back my youth I would do anything in the world, except take exercise, get up early, or be respectable.
Oscar Wilde

fini

Anybody reading this needs to make up their own mind,

well, no. i don't need to make up my mind. i can leave it un-made-up

Greedy

DMT/Dimethyltryptamine/The spirit molecule is a chemical released in many living things including humans. Its a hallucinogen that the brain releases while we sleep and is becoming more widely accepted as the source of our dreams. There are also an increasing number of scientists that believe when we suffer severe physical or mental trauma, the brain releases a massive dose of it, we experience hallucinations in a dream like state as a result and these experiences are interperated as near death experiences.

I'd link up a wiki to it but I dont have a high enough post count.

Craaig

That's a good reminder. My brain has aged rapidly in the last couple of years (I'm 78), so I'd forgotten or "tabled" DMT in favor of Schizophrenia. What a wonderfully plastic organ, our wee brain.
Love, Craig

silentrun

DMT - Peace and Loveism - Experience the Consciousness Shift

Really interesting stuff.

MesaMan

Leary is the first Person who came to mind after reading this just now. Just a hunch...

I'll have to ease into this Topic over time, due to other things going on right now. But, here's some Search Results for the interested to pursue...

Search Results: Timothy Leary + DMT

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Greedy

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