Mentium

Quite so. There is nothing magical about the traditional 12 Steps (though some might like to think otherwise). Here's a link to several secular alternative approaches to them:-

12Steps

dSober

For me, right now, God is all. He reaches well beyond the known universe (both time and space) and encompasses all. Talk about showing me humility!

For me, the steps have been, and continue to be a user's manual for the God of my understanding. It took me "a lot" of time and misery to find my God but oh man... I'm sure glad I finally did. I feel great! No regrets for me. No free rides either; everything has a price tag.

My head hurt for quite a long time but not anymore; seems to be getting more and more comfortable sitting on my shoulders. Skin seems to be fitting a little better too.

MesaMan

And now, back to our regularly scheduled Secular 12 Step Recovery Thread...

Thanks, Mentium, for the Link above. Good stuff.

dSober

Nope, nothing magical.

Archelon

Maybe you didn't read.

I have seven years sober.

I have worked the steps.

I am looking for a place to discuss secular 12 step, with people who also do. Not for someone willing to work with atheists. I want community not grudging tolerance.

Archelon

Thank you for those who respond to my question if this is the right place.

I'm looking for place to discuss secular 12 step.

That is not trying to take god or spiritualilty out of AA. Secular is not about not god. It's its own thing.

In secular god is a non issue, not the elephant in the room.

a different philosophy of life.

If people want to discuss god and AA why come to a secular forum/

Not asking because I want "archelon's way", just a question. Drug recovery not discussed on Alcoholism forum, doesn't that make sense?

people got angry last time I said that, but it's a question, of course post whatever you want anyplace you want. It feels disruptive.

Mentium

I am wondering if you are aware that the 12 Steps were created by AA. A 'secular' variation is simply that - people who don't wish to bring god into recovery but find the AA 12 steps a good route to recovery. For me it is about minimizing the spiritual side as an atheist.

I have to admit though, as someone who has so far poo pooed Step 3 I have become rather less skeptical of late. I'm personally unwilling though to take anything that required superstitious 'faith'.

Archelon

Yes, I know that other versions sprung from AA.

Does that mean we have to go back again to AA to talk about secular?

I heard the steps were wisdom before AA too, that they are part of the human experience. Maybe the number 12 makes them belong to AA.

I'm confused again, sorry. If it's all AA then why is there a secular forum for 12 step? Is it for AA to convince the secular one's to believe?

someone said their head stopped hurting when they believed in god. I think it was a suggestion.

That's ok. See that is why I asked my first question. Is this place to talk about secular 12 step or an extension of the AA forum so we hear "your way won't work it's a bad version of the best way"

I think someone called me a dummy.

Ok, this time I think I'm done.

thank you everyone.

Archelon

sorry if I offended.

MesaMan

Archelon ~

No offense taken because - clearly - none was intended.

I don't go Personal on Forums unless someone really ranks on me first. Then, I'll level 'em verbally and not even think twice about it. They reap what they sow. There's no need for stooping to such Guano; especially re: the Topic that binds us here. The World is getting more coarse quite well without me adding to that behavior.

'Don't let it bring you down
It's only castles burning,
Find someone who's turning
And you will come around'

'Don't Let It Bring You Down' ~ Neil Young

dSober

Addiction is WAAAY too important, way too damaging, often lethally, to get hung up on words. Words like God, Higher Power, Christian, atheist, agnostic, the universe, etc... It's also too deadly to get hung up on alcohol, narcotics, cocaine, gambling, sex and so on. Fact is, the 12 steps define a way to get past the internal crap that is at the root of all these, and through 10-12, avoid getting back into the same sinking boat, again. I've frankly come to the conclusion that the steps are probably a good way to fix internal crap regardless of whether or not it manifests itself in some kind of addiction.

I recommend anyone hung up on step 3, get unhung ASAP. It took me seven years and cost me, and everyone around me, DEARLY. I wish to "whatever" I'd have done it sooner. Btw, I capitalize God, etc. out of tradition and respect. Not everyone in AA feels this way but so what, it's working for me.

Boleo

It was never my intention to steer you away from this forum. Sorry if that how you perceived it. Also it was not I who brought up the "dummy" word. You brought it up - I stated I don't dummy down my message. I am not here to win friends. I run my message up the flag pole - If no one salutes it - No big deal. I am not attached to the outcome.

I am beginning to think that you and I have a different take on the word secular. I posted once before that I don't fully understand what secular is:

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...t-secular.html

I often post in this forum because I am a Taoist and not a Christian. Most people consider Taoism as a secular non-religion, similar to Eastern Philosophy. I am OK with that.

This is just a suggestion, so don't go Meshuggah when you here it: Why don't you try Taoism on for size and see if it fits? If not, I will put you on my "Ignore" list and suggest you do the same.

soberlicious

Archelon,
I don't practice a fixed set of steps, but I am a nontheist who doesn't drink. If I cause someone undue pain, I apologize. I look at my behavior and see what's useful and what's not, and I help others anytime I can (those addicted and those not). So I do practice some of the wisdom that Bill W. borrowed from history and compiled for easy digestion to make my life better and the improve on myself as a person. The difference for me is that I don't rely on that wisdom to keep me from drinking. My beliefs are not static, so if I tie my abstinence from alcohol to them, then by proxy it is not static either. For me, it's most effective if my abstinence is stand alone, not contingent on doing or believing something specific. That's "how it works" for me.

dSober

Oops, exceeded time limit. My friends, family and I can all tell you I'm becoming a much happier, better, more at peace person starting soon after getting past my hang up(s). Bottom line is find something, grab it and let it pull you out of this crap by making amends for past mistakes and promptly apologize for future ones. Result is a whole lot less heavy friggin' baggage to haul around everywhere you go; makes you crazy until you put it down and stop picking it up. A good sponsor can help you learn how to do it and then do it thoroughly.

fini

Archelon,
yes, i agree that secular is not about not god and is its own thing.

for me, the 12 steps are a spiritual path, and the secular versions i've seen are things i understand, things i consider useful, but what i don't get is why they take off as mostly mangled-up-meaning-changed-totally variations of the AA ones.
which is, i think, why so many here bring the conversation back to the AA twelve steps as soon as 12-step is mentioned.

might help if you could post the secular steps that you find helpful to you, or that you're following or wanting to explore and talk about.
definitely this is the place for that.

dSober

Or perhaps different interpretations of the original, tried and true steps.

dSober

Respect for the concept of love expressed by Christ, Lennon, and others, respect for the power of it, and respect for the people who believe in that concept. It seems to me that to do otherwise leads to division, rather than unification ala atheist, Buddhist, Christian, Muslim, etc...

Dee74

There seems to be some confusion amongst some of you as to what this forum is about.
It's spelt out pretty clearly in a sticky post as the top of the forum

By my reading of that post, Archelon you are very welcome to post here

I think it's also respectful to confine discussion to secular recovery in this forum.


D

MesaMan

Thank you. Thank you. And, thank you.

Archelon

These are the pro-active 12 steps



Step 1:

I get it: What I’ve been doing is self-destructive. I need to change.

Step 2:

I see the big picture: The way to stop relapsing into self-destructive behaviors is to build a healthier sense of self.

Step 3:

I have an action plan: From now on, I am squarely facing everything that is in the way of feeling really satisfied with my life.

Step 4:

I honestly look at the effects of my actions on others and myself.

Step 5:

I take responsibility for my actions.


Step 6:

I see that my knee-jerk reactions have to do with being in the grip of more or less conscious fears.



Step 7:

I strive to find my motivation in a deeper sense of who I
really am, rather than fear and defensiveness.

Step 8:

I stop blaming and feeling blamed, with a willingness to heal the wounds.

Step 9:

I swallow my pride, and sincerely apologize to people I've hurt, except when this would be counterproductive.

Step 10:

I live mindfully, paying attention to the motives and effects of my actions.

Step 11:

I stay in touch with a broader sense of who I really am, and a deeper sense of what I really want.

Step 12:

A growing sense of wholeness and contentment motivates me to keep at it, and to share this process with others who are struggling.