kiki1988

I have been going to meetings for about a week now and everyone I met told me it's not a big deal that I don't believe in God. Many have advised me that I will find a 'higher power' but that it is not important to believe in a God as such.

Since there are no Freethinkers groups or anything like that where I live, I accepted this and kept up the meetings.

Last night I went to a 12 and 12 and I got really angry. We read step 11 and the entire step is about God - not a God of your own understanding - a Christian God, a deity, "our Creator". I felt so cheated.

Why had everyone lied to me and told me this wasn't what it was about?

To an athiest, throwing the words "of your own understanding" in here and there really doesn't make much of a difference when it is clearly a theist doctrine.

It's a patronising step that suggests the only reason I don't believe in God is because of my own arrogance. That's not it at all.

I have no problem with people who find comfort in God - I'm just not one of them and I never will be.

Dee74

Hi Kiki

I moved your thread here to the Secular 12 step forum.
12 step topics are off limits in the Secular Connections forum.

D

kiki1988

Sorry!

Taking5

Why are you mad at the AA people for practicing a program that works for them? If AA really isn't for you, just move on and don't be mad at anyone. It serves no purpose.

mfanch

I crossed out EVERY word that eluded to god in the BB when I first came to AA. I laugh when I look at it now. I even rewrote the steps to suit my purposes. (Gabor Mate has a great conceptual explanation of each step in the back of his Hungry Ghosts book. That was a great start for me.

For me it has been very easy when it became life or death: I realize that need to choose between finite and infinite. I need to stop playing the god in this scenario and let things go on deeper and deeper levels.

AAnoob

because they were taught that AA is a 'spiritual' program, instead of religion based. (but in many ways, it is)

you should read about the origins of AA,
you will see the strong Christian influence.

Alcoholics Anonymous - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

matt4x4

The whole purpose of the Big Book is to find a higher power of your own understanding, that can and will help you.

If that is not something you want, or believe in, then throw the Big Book out and start up your own Free-Thinkers group, or perhaps try another program of some sorts.

afime

AA is, at its base, a christian program, and the literature is reflective of common thinking in the west from the 1930s. I'm still finding my place in the program, but what I've never felt is unwelcome in any group (I'm straight and did an LGBT meeting tonight). It's really not an obstacle if you can remember to simply convert the religious doctrine to non-religious concepts, as outlined in the various secular 12 steps.

StevenT

AA was based on christian principals at its' creation. There are many christians in the program. The 12 steps can be seen as religious, from a certain perspective. The important thing is that you don't have to be religious to recover from alcoholism using the 12 steps. You don't have to believe in the same God (The BB actually asks you to form your own conception). I've even seen people recover from alcoholism and enjoy long term sobriety (decades) without believing in "God". Simply a power greater then themselves, such as the fellowship of AA.

jdooner

I am not religious. I am not Christian. I am in AA. I am spiritual. I have faith in my HP.

1newcreation

Sry to hear that. Then by all means don't read Dr Bob & the good oldtimers coz that will split your head open

matt4x4

Naw man, AA is a spiritual program, not a christian program. Read the Big Book, it explains it. I am not about to get into that debate. Perhaps your confused about the Oxford Group. So be it.

TigerLili

For some people the 'God of their understanding' is a process, not a supernatural being.

AAnoob

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-religion.html

sugarbear1

my step 11 is about a higher power, not a christian god.....it's how it works for me.

Ratdog

Kiki, I've been a sober member of AA for over 29 years. I am not a religious person. I call my Higher Power "God" for simplicity, but in fact my personal concept of "God" is more akin to the "Force" in the Star Wars movies.

I know there is something out there that drives the universe, but to anthropomorphize it doesn't work for me. I've studied the "Holy" books of many religions and none of them rang true to me. Each of them are only man's interpretation of his own concept of this Higher Power.

"God" is unknowable, but we can glimpse His nature. But also remember that there IS the Dark Side (the Bible calls it the Devil).

May the FORCE be with you!

matt4x4

Ever wonder why there are so many religions on earth. 100's if not 1000's of different religious views, if not millions. There is a simple reason for that, and to come up with your own perception of your very own HP. What harm will it do?

dSober

I was never an atheist kiki. But I was definately agnostic. I'm a stubborn tech.geek and can't really believe anything 'til is proved one way or the other. I've been to a lot of meetings but couldn't really get past step 3. This describes my experience:

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...where-god.html

Aellyce

Kiki - perhaps try not to be too hung up on words and semantics? When texts are written, they are usually written by a person and reflect the beliefs, interpretations, even terminology usage preference of that person or that era. I think that spiritual systems, philosophies, programs that have practical implications usually evolve with time and might diverge from the original descriptions.

It sounds like your fellow AA'ers are closer to your free interpretation preferences... maybe focus on what they are suggesting then?

RubyQ

I completely agree Kiki. It really brings out my "angry atheist" side. Have you been exposed to Chapter 4 yet? "We Agnostics"? I found it condescending and insulting. It basically says if you don't end up coming around to God you are arrogant and self-centered and will probably fail in the program.

I was extremely disappointed to find out that after 70 years the AA program has not evolved to be more inclusive. They say it's open to people of any belief, but then they use the phrase "God as you understand Him" AND then they read the Lords Prayer at the end of the meeting! Plus I don't need a "spiritual" program to get me to look outside myself and seek help beyond me. "It's not religious it's spiritual." Ad infinitum.

I don't want to have to do mental gymnastics to constantly turn their phrasing into something acceptable to me. I do my best to "take what I like and leave the rest," I'm studying the secular versions of the steps and I have learned some great advice from the more dogmatic members, but the program makes me angry.