Johnston

I'm talking about my perception of what people say, not what actually motivates them to say what they do. I couldn't possibly know that. The AA literature on the other hand can be researched as a historical document, from which conclusions can be made about what motivated the authors to write what they did. This leads me to the conclusion that belief in an external, supernatural, monotheistic being is the goal of the 12 steps. I can't possibly see how a secularist could reconcile with this view in the long run, unless they buy into it.


It's ironic that you use the heliocentric example, as most people know how Galileo's view fared with the spiritual powers-that-be at that time. BTW, the most open minded people and honest people I have ever known are secular scientists. They tend to believe only half of what they observe and nothing of what they hear.

awuh1

First of all, recovery from alcoholism is the goal of the 12 steps. This is more than obvious, even to the most casual observer. You on the other hand, continue to see evangelism for specific set of theistic beliefs as the motivation for the 12 steps. This is the heart of the problem you are having, even with something as basic as this secular 12 step forum.

Perhaps you have not yet read the appendix from the book entitled “Spiritual Experience”. Here is a little of what it says. “The terms “spiritual experience” and “spiritual awakening” are used many times in this book which, upon careful reading, shows that the personality change sufficient to bring about recovery from alcoholism has manifested itself among us in many different forms….”

The book is full of examples that encourage the reader to find something… anything…. that will work for them as they do the 12 steps. This in fact is the great genius of the work, namely, that the program is spiritual, not religious.

Johnston

I thought the purpose of the steps is to have a spiritual awakening. At least that's how I read the 12th. I believe the preamble speaks to recovery from alcoholism via the fellowship. The casual observer will indeed hear that at the beginning of most meetings.

As far as evangelizing, the 12th step covers that too.

I have read that, thanks. Again, the use of the word spiritual is sufficient to give me pause as to how exactly I can both meditate AND pray to whatever I used to affect a personality change in myself. Again, I might be able to meditate on such things in an intellectual way, but to pray to them would be to deify them. Something I can't do with a straight face.

I'm not going to split hairs as to what is spiritual and what is religious. As a secularist, neither have any bearing in my recovery. But if I do find something, anything, that works for me I am not going to pray to it, as step 11 tells me to. Again, this is deification. I'm also not going to ask it to remove my shortcomings.

dSober

I struggled for years trying to find my Higher Power and watching my life flushing down the toilet all the while. Now that I feel I've found It, I feel at peace and in a much better position to work and rework the steps more thoroughly going forward.