A New Kind of GOD
Sober Alcoholic
Join Date: Aug 2011
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Originally Posted by MythOfSisyphus 
I dunno that there's any reasonable way to say that consciousness isn't a function of the brain.
Actually it’s quite easy to make a case that consciousness survives the physical body. People have been brought back from a state of physical death and have accurately reported on what people were saying and doing while working on their (then) dead bodies in the emergency room. These are folks who had no pulse, no respiration and flat EEG’s. They had no bodily organs capable of perception, let alone a brain able of recording a memory of those perceptions. Still they accurately reported on these events.
These extraordinary experiences cannot be explained by modern neuroscience (although quantum mechanics does provide us with some tantalizing hints). It would seem reasonable to ask those who believe that the brain is the exclusive container of consciousness for an explanation. If specific and reasonable explanations have been offered, I have not seen them.
There are times when the facts just don’t fit the theory, and it’s not the facts that need to be changed.
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Join Date: Oct 2012
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I think NDEs have been sufficiently debunked by science that further refutation here is unnecessary. There are virtually no cases I'm aware of where information returned from death that isn't explainable to science. Research has really begun to show what happens to the brain as the body dies; NDEs are pretty consistent with that research.
Out of curiousity, just what physical means would a disembodied spirit have for looking down on its body? Spectral eyes? Some other ghostly organs of perception?
Out of curiousity, just what physical means would a disembodied spirit have for looking down on its body? Spectral eyes? Some other ghostly organs of perception?
Sober Alcoholic
Join Date: Aug 2011
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Please, show me the debunking. Where is it? Are you just speculating that it exists? What exactly is the explanation? I cannot wait to see what you are referring to.
The questions in the last line of your post show how stuck you are in that paradigm. Consider some flexibility in your thinking. This may help http://homes.soic.indiana.edu/nensmeng/files/Kuhn.pdf
The questions in the last line of your post show how stuck you are in that paradigm. Consider some flexibility in your thinking. This may help http://homes.soic.indiana.edu/nensmeng/files/Kuhn.pdf
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Join Date: Jan 2013
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just out of curiosity Myth..did you ever experience a NDE or any other spiritual experience..
You are trying to disprove something to science that you never experienced yourself?
and why do you think you have so much proof...being you never experienced one yourself?
You are trying to disprove something to science that you never experienced yourself?
and why do you think you have so much proof...being you never experienced one yourself?
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,937
The closest to death I came (that I know of) was as a young child. I have no memory of it at all and don't recall seeing anything. There's quite a bit of research that explains the mechanics of the body at death. I don't have time to search it all out but I trust everyone has access to Google.
I think the belief in some kind of supernatural experience is completely unfounded. But if some of your worldviews are predicated on believing it, so be it.
I think the belief in some kind of supernatural experience is completely unfounded. But if some of your worldviews are predicated on believing it, so be it.
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 350
I just heard of a case in which a woman had an aneurysm and to get rid of it, they killed her - they hooked her up to a heart-bypass machine, took out her blood and lowered the body temp to a point where no brain function was detected at all. They took care of the aneurysm and brought her back to life. Yet, this woman reported an out of body experience in which she recalled parts of the conversations that were held when her brain was silent, dead, not at all electrically active. Up until I heard of this case (in a documentary I think), I tended to lean toward decaying fields with the organ called the brain. It is possible, but is it probable?
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MythofSisyphus, thanks for demonstrating several of my points regarding paradigms.
ProgressNotPerfection, I believe the case you may be referring to is this one.
Part 1 BBC: PAM SEES GOD. NDE Pam Reynolds. Amazing! Full version! - YouTube
Part 2 BBC: PAM SEES GOD. NDE Pam Reynolds. Amazing! 2 part - YouTube
ProgressNotPerfection, I believe the case you may be referring to is this one.
Part 1 BBC: PAM SEES GOD. NDE Pam Reynolds. Amazing! Full version! - YouTube
Part 2 BBC: PAM SEES GOD. NDE Pam Reynolds. Amazing! 2 part - YouTube
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Join Date: Jul 2013
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Arguing over NDEs is just silly. MoS, my guess is when your about to die your point of view will change. Until then its all talk to fill a narrative that you self identify with based on research and readings of others.
I have been without and with faith and I can say believing in something greater than yourself comes with a sense of peace and serenity that causes me to feel pity for those without. This is not something that can be shared or taught on a website of Forum.
I have been without and with faith and I can say believing in something greater than yourself comes with a sense of peace and serenity that causes me to feel pity for those without. This is not something that can be shared or taught on a website of Forum.
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Join Date: Jan 2013
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Originally Posted by MythOfSisyphus
The closest to death I came (that I know of) was as a young child. I have no memory of it at all and don't recall seeing anything. There's quite a bit of research that explains the mechanics of the body at death. I don't have time to search it all out but I trust everyone has access to Google.
I think the belief in some kind of supernatural experience is completely unfounded. But if some of your worldviews are predicated on believing it, so be it.
I think the belief in some kind of supernatural experience is completely unfounded. But if some of your worldviews are predicated on believing it, so be it.
or latter psychosis? It doesn't make one unintelligent to believe in something you don't understand. You don't have to claim you have proof of something when you are so far from that. Before I had my experiences I was a skeptic of sorts on spiritual matters but I didn''t flat out dismiss it. Maybe one day you will have an experience..when you do you will know it's not merely scientific.
Recovered from Hopeless State
Join Date: Oct 2012
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I just discovered this thread and must confess I haven't read every post yet. Based on what I have read so far though, I thought this might be relevant:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...where-god.html
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...where-god.html
Laozi Old Man
Thread Starter
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Posts: 6,665
Originally Posted by Pete55
The point is, the 13th stand was empty, there was purposefully no carved marble statue standing on the base of the stand.
The script carved into the marble said, "The Unknown God"
The script carved into the marble said, "The Unknown God"
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Originally Posted by BackToSquareOne
Did anyone ever consider that we were never meant to know (for a fact) what happens when we die or to solve the higher power mystery? If we did know, beyond any doubt, that what came next was much better there would be no point in sticking around here. It would be a mad race for the exits.
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Originally Posted by BackToSquareOne
Did anyone ever consider that we were never meant to know (for a fact) what happens when we die or to solve the higher power mystery? If we did know, beyond any doubt, that what came next was much better there would be no point in sticking around here. It would be a mad race for the exits.
Live it!!! Quit killing it!!
Recovered from Hopeless State
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: New Jersey, USA
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Originally Posted by Philip897
There's a big problem with talking about making up your own meaning for God, whether it be Good Orderly Direction or anything else.
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Originally Posted by Zencat
The Gift Of Detachment is where I'm at with relation to HP's/GOD(s). Letting-go of God is in a way to me the same as accepting God. If I hold no notion of God I become more open to others, that is to be less judgmental. Now onto ego, I heard said: Edging God Out. Edging others out is what I get. I'm not a bag of ego or full of self, so I let-go of myself concept (ego?) that I am different from everybody else. So why have a set idea or experience to base an opinion from that can separate me from others (God IMO) when I'm the same.
Detach from self, detach from from God/HP, connect with others. When I experience some resistance to a situation, experience, concept, that's struggling to me. I'm holding on to something that can separate me from God (or fill in the blank______ ). I think the point I'm trying to get is 'cause no harm'. Believe as you will and I'm thinking my task is to cause no distress in others because of beliefs or lack therefore. And that frees me from distress within myself. I never believed that 'letting-go' had so much power. I believed that what I held onto is what mattered. How wrong I was
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Detach from self, detach from from God/HP, connect with others. When I experience some resistance to a situation, experience, concept, that's struggling to me. I'm holding on to something that can separate me from God (or fill in the blank______ ). I think the point I'm trying to get is 'cause no harm'. Believe as you will and I'm thinking my task is to cause no distress in others because of beliefs or lack therefore. And that frees me from distress within myself. I never believed that 'letting-go' had so much power. I believed that what I held onto is what mattered. How wrong I was
.Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Fleeing Temptation in PTZ
Posts: 168
Is there an INNATE NEED to consider a hp, or GOD?
Aren't all thoughts brain chemicals, and unnatural additions modify the mind; including innate 'needs'.
For me , I answer that need. . . finding peace with the GOD of my decision.
A very detailed sober study of religions led me to believe and accept one GOD . . . my savior friend.
Although faith can only exist with other choices, I joyously await my crossing into Heaven. . .
Peace & Blessings
Aren't all thoughts brain chemicals, and unnatural additions modify the mind; including innate 'needs'.
For me , I answer that need. . . finding peace with the GOD of my decision.
A very detailed sober study of religions led me to believe and accept one GOD . . . my savior friend.
Although faith can only exist with other choices, I joyously await my crossing into Heaven. . .
Peace & Blessings
Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Fleeing Temptation in PTZ
Posts: 168
I'm thinking INFINITY is beguiling, yet ETERNALLY UNFATHOMABLE, given a finite tool set!
This profoundly shows me there could be an OMNISENT INFINITE CREATOR GOD .
Who is also beyond our rationale.
My meaning of life is 'an opportunity for faith' . . . Whether one is rich, poor, healthy, or ill, etc. That is each their opportunity for faith.
Or God would show his BEING always . . . GOD allows each to decide.
That's my belief.
Serenely
This profoundly shows me there could be an OMNISENT INFINITE CREATOR GOD .
Who is also beyond our rationale.
My meaning of life is 'an opportunity for faith' . . . Whether one is rich, poor, healthy, or ill, etc. That is each their opportunity for faith.
Or God would show his BEING always . . . GOD allows each to decide.
That's my belief.
Serenely
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