AA freethinkers
 

I know this topic has been discussed but it most of the topics were a bit outdated. My main question is for those of you that have been to both. I've been going to AA for a little over a year now and just have stopped going as much just because I feel it was a bit too much like a church. So I was wondering if it really is different?

The Principles which AA is founded on are based in some of the principles of Judeo-Christianity. In AA however we are a little more gentle...and we have the How and Why of how to live by these Principles the best we can

Theres an actual set of instructions where I found a very loving God and what I like best is no one told me Who He is and no one can take Him from me.

It is a spiritual program. People in the fellowship can, and do, perhaps a little too often for others... share with a certain amount of religiosity... Find another meeting or try to see past the language and see what it is they are getting at.

Agnostics and atheists can and do get there, to a the spiritual awakening as described in the big book. Perhaps there is someone who can share with you what they did.

:)

when I go to Church,the Preacher tells me who my HP is.
when I go to AA,I make that decision for myself.

Church allows me no flexibility sometimes.AA always allows me flexibility.

Genetic, you may want to ask this question on the "Secular 12-Step Recovery" page. There are a number of Agnostic/Atheist 12-Step adherents there. Most of us on this page are using a more spiritual approach to the 12-Steps.

Cheers.

Ya of course would a mod be able to move topic. I can't mod my first post anymore. Sorry I wasn't really sure if this was right board to post the topic.

Thanks everyone For the input so far

I'm always baffled when I hear that. What church is it you went to that was like AA? I've never been to any church that was even close to AA.

moved as requested by OP :)

D

Religious Society of Friends (Quakers) meeting for worship has some important similarities... At least I see some.

I don't see how people can't see the similiarities between a religious service(meeting) and an AA meeting. In my home group the first thing we say is the serenity prayer and the last thing we say is the lords prayer, and you can see the 10 commandments in the 12 steps without looking to hard. After 3 years of sobriety I'm only beginning to realize just how powerful addiction to chemical substances is. Sadly the success rate for total abstainence for life is less than 10% no matter what kind of program is used. I am rootin for all of those that put out an honest effort to quit drink. :egypt:

in AA they (don't worship) anything or anyone
 

I see some similarities in the 12 step literature and 24hr books, pocket sponsor and other recovery literature to Buddhism and Christianity in philosophy. I wouldn't call it religious but I would call it spiritual and certainly holistic.

I sometimes see sports teams and soldiers forming a group hug and saying a prayer. Doesn't mean it's a religious service. They are just asking what ever they conceive as God for the strength and courage to prevail.

With a few notable exceptions, churches are composed of people who (for the most part) believe the same thing. In AA you have people who have Group Of Drunks as their higher power or no higher power at all. It’s perfectly acceptable.

There is a guy locally who says “when I first came to AA I remember people saying God and F*ck in the same sentence. I knew I was in the right place”.

Since most meetings in my area are held in churches, you can say AA is like going to church. But, that's about where the similarity ends. No one tells me what God I have to believe in. No one tells me how much I need to "donate". No one condemns me for my action. Also, once I get sober, I'm the only one that can send me back to Hell if I pick up that drink again.

I was surprised how much the format of the meetings was like many religious services I had attended. Not necessarily the content specifically, though of course it focuses on how to live a life that is worth living.

But yeah, the set up felt very churchy, and many people seemed to talk about it and approach it the way many people talk about and approach their religion.

In the area in which I first got involved, there were folks who would hold up their much highlighted copy of the Big Book and shake it for emphasis while they "preached" on a certain reading out of it. And quoted it line and verse.

I think the big difference is that AA is a program of action, whereas church is usually a passive service. You would also need to distinguish between the AA program and AA members. There will be AA members who will push it to either extreme; some basically declaring that the HP is the Christian God and others saying it can be a doorknob if you want. The program, however, stays fairly stable.

one meeting i've gone to several times is very different from all others: it has no steps or traditions hanging on the wall, no reading of "how it works", no handholding for the serenity-prayer at the end, just a circle and sharing of whatever is on anyone's mind.
i was told the person who started it wanted a meeting that simply went back to basics of alcoholics sharing with each other.

and none of the meetings i've checked out (there have been at least a dozen different ones) has had any prayer other than the serenity one. i'm thinking the Lord's Prayer reading seems an American thing...haven't heard of it up here at all. much more secular country.

but re that meeting i mentioned: i have no way of knowing if anyone there is a freethinker; from listening to the shares, i think most people there do more "regular" AA in addition to this particular meeting.
and if there is an agnostic meeting here in Vancouver, i haven't found it. it's not listed anywhere.

There are a couple meetings like that in my neighborhood. Really simple. Like a Quaker Circle.

Also, most meetings I attend here in New York City close with the Serenity Prayer. It's usually left to the speaker or visiting group and 95% it's serenity. There are some "Lords Prayer groups" - it's more a neighborhood thing than anything else. But then, we're a bunch of atheists and anarchists here in NYC :D

-allan

Are there parts of a AA that I'm not too wild about? Yup. AA has been doing fine for over 75 years without my ideas or input so I have learned just to keep my mouth shut. Take what you want and leave the rest

The suggestion "Take what you like, and leave the rest" is not frivolous. It really works for me.
As a 28+year member of AA, I've gone through a lot of changes "godwise." A history of fundamentalist Christianity, libertine guilt-ridden rejection and finally AA the traditional way, I've come to a much different understanding than that with which I started. Encapsulated, it is this: It's an inside job. I need to discover who I am (see my blog on this site on steps 4 & 5) and to maintain a regular and *honest* dialogue with myself. When I updated me on my "beliefs," using "rigorous honesty," I realized that most of the stuff I was hearing was as insubstantial as swamp gas, to me. I did not have to reject it, it just wasn't true for me. There are not fairies in the bottom of my garden, space pirates did not steal my puppy, and god didn't get me sober. Do you or they want to talk about how wonderful God is in their lives, fine, great, amen, but that's not my experience, strength or hope. It doesn't offend or in any way hurt (maybe bores a little), nor does it keep me from practicing my spiritual principles: patience, tolerance, kindliness, love, forgiveness and acceptance, to name a few.
Christopher Hitchins has a wonderful analogy about it which I'll paraphrase, "Your god is, to me, like your penis. I'm pleased you have one. I hope it gives you pleasure and fulfillment and is precious to you, but please, don't take it out and wave it around, don't ask me to touch it, and watch out, you're in trouble if you try to cram it down my throat."