Can atheists succeed in AA?
I just take what I want from AA and leave the rest. Theres no question I cannot do it alone(stay sober) so I choose to go to meeting and when I feel its getting too religous for me I just somewhat listen but will think of other things I will be doing after the meeting or just look around and study peoples faces for my own interest on how different we all are,then go back to focus on meeting. And if I go to a meeting that I do not really feel comfortable with I just find another meeting for the next week for that day. As long as I go I know it greatly decreases my chances of slipping away.
I'm an atheist/agnostic, been in AA for 5 years and sober for nearly 3, so yes it does work. In that time i have met many atheists in AA.
You neither need a Christian concept of God or religion to be sober in AA.
Stick around, read alot, post here and whenever you are confronted with that word 'god' put your own understanding on the word, rather than somebody elses.
You neither need a Christian concept of God or religion to be sober in AA.
Stick around, read alot, post here and whenever you are confronted with that word 'god' put your own understanding on the word, rather than somebody elses.
Here is a quote from one of the founders of AA:
"In AA's first years I all but ruined the whole undertaking with this sort of unconscious arrogance: God as I understood Him had to be for everybody. Sometimes my aggression was subtle and sometimes it was crude. But either way it was damaging - perhaps fatally so - to numbers of non-believers. Of course this sort of thing isn't confined to Twelfth Step work. It is very apt to leak out into our relationships with everybody. Even now, I catch myself chanting that same old barrier-building refrain, 'Do as I do, believe as I do - or else!'"
"The Dilemma of No Faith" by Bill Wilson, AA Grapevine, April 1961
AA groups have business meetings where one can bring up issues such as the religious content of meetings. Newcomers are welcome at these meetings--I participated in a couple of the meetings where the format of our "Mindfulness" meeting was set, and had only been an AA member for a month. I read the above quote at the meeting.
"In AA's first years I all but ruined the whole undertaking with this sort of unconscious arrogance: God as I understood Him had to be for everybody. Sometimes my aggression was subtle and sometimes it was crude. But either way it was damaging - perhaps fatally so - to numbers of non-believers. Of course this sort of thing isn't confined to Twelfth Step work. It is very apt to leak out into our relationships with everybody. Even now, I catch myself chanting that same old barrier-building refrain, 'Do as I do, believe as I do - or else!'"
"The Dilemma of No Faith" by Bill Wilson, AA Grapevine, April 1961
AA groups have business meetings where one can bring up issues such as the religious content of meetings. Newcomers are welcome at these meetings--I participated in a couple of the meetings where the format of our "Mindfulness" meeting was set, and had only been an AA member for a month. I read the above quote at the meeting.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: chi
Posts: 2
FYI, here is another Einstein quote for you:
It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I also cannot imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere.... Science has been charged with undermining morality, but the charge is unjust. A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death.
-- Albert Einstein, "Religion and Science," New York Times Magazine, 9 November 1930
It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I also cannot imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere.... Science has been charged with undermining morality, but the charge is unjust. A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death.
-- Albert Einstein, "Religion and Science," New York Times Magazine, 9 November 1930
5.Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we with our modest powers must feel humble
The problem that alcoholics have is between their ears. It's not metaphysical. Whether or not God exists doesn't matter. Whether an alcoholic has the mental illness whereby they believe they are God - ah! There's the thing.
I don't believe in god. In a bearded being that throws bolts of lightning to punish sinners.
I believe in life, in everything, in the universe,
religion and such are just ways of expressing this.
At least that's how I feel.
I believe in life, in everything, in the universe,
religion and such are just ways of expressing this.
At least that's how I feel.
I was at a 10 am meeting I often attend and there were three of us atheists, with 31, 30 and 25 years sobriety in AA and another guy who identifies as an agnostic with 38 years, so yeah we can succeed in AA. The guy with 25 years shared that the group is his HP and if he had a religion it would be baseball.
So there ;-)
-allan
So there ;-)
-allan
I call myself an Evolutionist, but before that description, I was an agnostic, before that an athesist, and raised a catholic. 1015 days sober today, attend aa meetings regularly and hang here on SR even more. I go for the fellowship, to be around people who are sober, people who help other people stay sober. There's one guy in my home group who's god is a door knob, so there ya go. God's are dime-a-dozen and always have been through out history. AA did evolve out of the Oxford Group, a religious based organization that helped people get sober. Down south of me in the "big city", there are aa groups for gays, lesbians, and just about any other group you can imagine. Anybody can make it in aa.
I am a firm atheist but I've never been to AA. I have no interest in the 12-step program at this point but the one thing I miss from AA is the f2f meetings. The only outlet I have for expressing my experiences about being an alcoholic and being sober is here on these forums. I have not told any of my friends or family (except my wife) that I consider myself an alcoholic, they do know I quit drinking, but they probably don't realize it's forever.
It would be nice to be able to talk f2f with people but I have pretty bad social anxiety so it's hard for me to even open up at all around people especially strangers. My face gets red and I stutter when I talk to people, even people I know. And I definitely wouldn't want to be put in a situation where people would antagonize me for not doing 12 steps or for being an atheist.
I think it would be cool if there was some kind of looser social group for sober people. More like a support group then a program. Something where people could just talk about their lives without alcohol/drugs and how they keep busy and stuff, not even necessarily talking about being sober maybe just talking about life. Maybe like a book club or a knitting circle (lol can't believe I wrote that) but for people who are sober. Because I'm not really comfortable talking about sobriety with people who still drink and drug and stuff.
It would be nice to be able to talk f2f with people but I have pretty bad social anxiety so it's hard for me to even open up at all around people especially strangers. My face gets red and I stutter when I talk to people, even people I know. And I definitely wouldn't want to be put in a situation where people would antagonize me for not doing 12 steps or for being an atheist.
I think it would be cool if there was some kind of looser social group for sober people. More like a support group then a program. Something where people could just talk about their lives without alcohol/drugs and how they keep busy and stuff, not even necessarily talking about being sober maybe just talking about life. Maybe like a book club or a knitting circle (lol can't believe I wrote that) but for people who are sober. Because I'm not really comfortable talking about sobriety with people who still drink and drug and stuff.
I don't know what I believe... What I do know is that with my drinking, I worshipped wine. I feel uncomfortable with the god talk, but I'm getting better. And as a man in my group always says, it is a spiritual program not a religious program.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Barrie, Ontario
Posts: 1
You can make anything your higher power. I used my support people and the fellowship at meetings my higher power. I went to a recent conference and a speaker made his goldfish his because it worked for him
Rogieredlight
Rogieredlight
I'm a pantheist...the Universe is the Ultimate Reality. Nothing personal. It holds all the cards. I'm a function of it. Doesn't take much of a stretch of the mind to accept that.
Higher Power? Well there is something that gives substance abusers a way out. That's all I needed to know. That yes, there is someway to get and stay sober. Evolution selected for it and by jinkies I am going to make use of it.
Never had to bow, scrape, or beg, swallow any bitter pill, lie or debase myself.
I had that fear in the beginning that in order to recover via 12 steps I would have to buy into some religious ponsey scheme, but that was my fear and resentment rearing their heads, it was not reality.
And since I am ALL about reality....
my experience. I found NA less about "God talk" in general than AA. That is based on the meetings I have attended in the areas I have lived, so that may not be an accurate assessment of the programs overall.
I use a variety of 12 step programs literature and resources, not just NA/AA. Some of them are specifically secular, there are even rather rabid Atheist versions if you care to search for them. Most of my 12 step contact these days is online due to my living circumstances.
Generally I have found people care WAY less about what I believe or don't believe than I anticipate they will.
My HP is the function of my brain that allows me to overcome addiction.
My sponsor has nearly 25 yrs clean and he is a staunch atheist. He just didn't let it get in his way. A lot of times it's the atheist themselves that lets their belief stop them from participating, the other people don't really care.
Higher Power? Well there is something that gives substance abusers a way out. That's all I needed to know. That yes, there is someway to get and stay sober. Evolution selected for it and by jinkies I am going to make use of it.
Never had to bow, scrape, or beg, swallow any bitter pill, lie or debase myself.
I had that fear in the beginning that in order to recover via 12 steps I would have to buy into some religious ponsey scheme, but that was my fear and resentment rearing their heads, it was not reality.
And since I am ALL about reality....
my experience. I found NA less about "God talk" in general than AA. That is based on the meetings I have attended in the areas I have lived, so that may not be an accurate assessment of the programs overall.
I use a variety of 12 step programs literature and resources, not just NA/AA. Some of them are specifically secular, there are even rather rabid Atheist versions if you care to search for them. Most of my 12 step contact these days is online due to my living circumstances.
Generally I have found people care WAY less about what I believe or don't believe than I anticipate they will.
My HP is the function of my brain that allows me to overcome addiction.
My sponsor has nearly 25 yrs clean and he is a staunch atheist. He just didn't let it get in his way. A lot of times it's the atheist themselves that lets their belief stop them from participating, the other people don't really care.
Your attitude, not your aptitude, will determine your altitude
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxnard (The Nard), CA, USA.
Posts: 13,685
Atheist (of the implicit variety), humanist, naturalist, pantheist, Zen or one of the multitude faithless, all fit nicely into my worldview. I recognize AA has many benefits in aiding one in their ability to remain sober. With a HP being Good, replace prayer with mantra and powerlessness with empowerment, yea I know I'm heavy with the editing scissors, I have worked the 12-Steps. AA, CBT, DBT...etc, Are recovery tools to me. I receive and give back.
I don't want to change AA, so in AA meetings I basically go with the flow. I understand the 12-Step concepts enough to talk about faith or faithlessness within AA respectfully. I'm fortunate enough to have like minded individuals in AA in life and way many more in FB groups.
My experience has been the same Threshold. Even the Basic Text talks more about Higher Power than just God. Same as the meetings. I have a friend who is bicoastal and he defiantly fits the agnostic profile and fits right in at both cities which leads me to think its the program more than a geographical issue.
It also seems those of us that are agnostic/atheist seem to lean towards NA over AA for this reason.
It also seems those of us that are agnostic/atheist seem to lean towards NA over AA for this reason.
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