digderidoo

I have read within budddhist recovery sources how some AA'ers use the concept of the law of Karma as a higher power.

I would be interested to hear of any thoughts on this and whether anyone here does this.

I got stressed out over an issue yesterday. Step 3 is something i am learning and developing at the moment. I felt praying or meditating on it didn't really help, so thought how would the law of Karma relate to this.

My thoughts are that i should accept the consequence of my actions. What basically happened was that my ex wife became insulting because she couldn't get her own way, regarding her wanting me to take time off work tomorrow for the kids. I do help out if i can, i do generally say yes to her requests, but there are times when i say no and rather than back down, which i used to, i will explain why i am saying no and stand firm, i certainly will not now be walked all over by my ex.

Anyhow i got to thinking with repect to the law of Karma, that the consequences of me saying no, therefore means that my ex wife does get insulting and does get angry. Whether i allow this to effect me is my choice.

But is this how the law of karma works? Is it a case of accepting the results of my actions?

Paul

Ananda

i use the law of cause and effect (karma) as my HP...however, karma is not the simplistic thing that some look at it as imo.....

Every cause has an effect, every effect becomes the next cause. Now..it isn't only my actions, but the actions of others and the actions of societies, family history, etc.....

all of these causes blend together have an effect which then caries on as the next cause...

sometimes I cannot understand the karma that is going on because it is simply too complecated for me to get and i don't alwways know all the peices...in fact rarely will i.

However, I believe that absolutely everything is under the umbrealla (control?) of the law of cause and effect....i have choices and responsiblity as far as what effect i contribute to the world...causes are alread a done deal...i think (still exploring this).

The more i understand about cause and effect the better I can contribute to the world and the more compasionate I can be. The less i understand the more it is likely that it will run my life willy nilly.

in a way it I have to accept that due to the karma of a situation...not only my actions, but the other person's past and issues, an effect hapens. This doesn't make the action wrong or the "reaction" right..it isn't about judgement to me it is simply what it is. the person's reaction then becomes a cause of an effect on me...which i then get to make an impact on what i send back out to the world.

When someone else says or does something hurtful to me...i believe that is real..not something where i get to "choose" nto to be hurt...however I get to choose weather to pass that hurt on to others at that moment or later, weather to turn it inward and harm myself any worse...

It is complicated for me because it is the nature of being a human being that i will be hurt, feel, be effected internally and externally...to think that isn't true for me is to pretend i have more power than i do and to miss the good parts as well as the negative of the human experience.

In my past, many circumstances and actions of others caused me to be harmed in many ways...some of the damage heals some doesnt...but i have to do my best to not turn that harm into outward karma of a negative sort.

The idea that my actions will bomerang back on me has nothing to do with karma as i understand it....as i explained to a friend once..it isn't that if I have an affair on my husband my husband will have an affair on me...it is that in the act of having the affair i have damaged myself as well as creating a negaive concequence in the world outside myself.

Wow....am i long winded or what

oh..so my HP is all powerful, no one can escape it's power...and it is solid dependable and makes no judgements...it neither loves nor hate me it simply is and if i work within it's framework i have a chance at a rather nice human expereince with the ups and downs that come along the way.

digderidoo

So, how do you use your concept of Karma as your higher power? And how do you relate that concept to step 3, is what i guess i'm asking.

Is it basically a case of accepting the effect?

Paul

Ananda

ok so... i beilieve in the law of cause and effect and i live by the spiritual principles..the spiritual path that is realted to that belief.

made a decision to turn my will and my life over to the care of "god"*the spiritual path that the law of cause and effect, karma, ahs provided me*

ok now...just remember this is not something i am sayin i do well at all it is the goal...

I have made a decision to live a life and apply my will in the direction of a spiritual path of which the law of cause and effect is the highest power there is....I do believe that by following a spritual path based on this concept and some others similar ones, will allow me to live an awakened and sane life.

I need to make decisions based on the spiritual or philisophical or psycological principles (call them which ever of the 3 you like it's all the same to me).

OK...simply put i hope...yes i do have to accept that the effect exists, but i also have to accept that a new cause will rise out of this that i have some responsiblity for how i participate in this new cause...and then have to accept that the effect of my cause happens.

It isn't a static acceptance....accepting that a cause or effect exists doesn't mean that i just sit inactive as things procede...i must accept how things are at this moment and then act to do what seems to be the next indicated thing to participate in the karma in a way that (well i don't like to use the word, but) will move things in a better/good/indicated direction....

the 3rd step is making a decision to follow a spiritual path for me.

I don't explain it very well digger lol thats the best i can do at the moment

digderidoo

You have explained it well, thanks ananda.

Paul

emmanuel2012

Ok,

To understand karma, you may need a fresh perspective.
From the teachings of Buddha alone,
You might not achieve the full perspective
Of the Karmic Wheel, of which there are many, many
Perspectives. You and I, are but spokes on this wheel,
Rather than axles, though Liberation and Transcendence
From this wheel, the cycle of death and rebirth,
Is and has always been possible.

We carry with us a sacred "drop" of divinity,
Which is, a part of the Godhead,
Referred to as Krsna, by some,
Buddha, Jesus, Muhammed,
Moses, Zues, Aeros, to others,
Vishnu, ******, Siva, *****, Nuit,
Zhen, Ra, and of course, Led ZEPPELIN,

Ha!

All the gods, and who is responsible for Creation?

The Wheels of Karma and the Law of Karma
Is simpler than you think.
This transcends "cause and effect"
and all of causality in general,
Including modern science,
Which only uses inductive logic.

Examine the 7 Heremetic Principles,
And one of them is the Law of Polarity,
And and another the Law of Duality
But these are out of the scope of this thread.
But if you examine them, you will discover
How every truth is but a half truth,
And that everything in nature has a precious
Balance of energy, if you add all the vector sums.

If you really truly search for the meaning of karma,
It has less to do with action/consequences,
But more to do with Work.
Ones Karmic "load" is the burden
That which is placed upon your existence,
That is to be carried out,
Else liberation is rarely possible.

Liberation from the Karmic Wheel is known as Samsara.

Religion, comes from the word ligio, to connect.
Re-ligion, is the act of recconecting to the Godhead,
And liberating (manifesting) Karma (thy will be done),
Is the basic means of achieving Transcendence from
The ongoing cycle of death and rebirth.
Kabballah, is one ladder to this achievement,
Which was broth forth by Abraham.

There was a time where we were severed from the
Tree of Knowledge, which is direct union with the Godhead,
And we, having seperate wills, seperate souls, are but
Began to create ways to reconnect, and that is the
Basis of all religion. The sacred "drop" of God that
We posses is but one a billions, trillions of drops,
That will, some say, reunite into the true Being of God again.

Hindus, Christains, Buddhists, Muslims, and Jews
Are established cultural sectors of our society,
Bonded by belief, or faith, doctrine, creed, path, or sacrifical rite of pasage

Taosism, Zen Buddishm, Yoga, Tantra, Theosophy, Thelema...are more philosophical.
However, the history of religion knows many many more religions.
There are over 1000 in India alone.

In my quest for undeniable truth, I found Karma was less of a principle,
And more of a working theory, that our lives carry lessons, and
By learning them we can achieve great spiritual and total joy.
Not learning them, give us the same situations, which teach the
Lessons in different ways. Sometimes these ways have ordeals
That become more severe, until, we finally get it, and we can
Advance to the the next one.

Karma is simply a natural _tendency_ to LEARN through WORKING,
And KNOWLEDGE is the cornerstone of achieving levels of divinity
And oneness. When we refuse to learn, the knowledge that is placed
Right before our very eyes, and ears, we suffer from spinning
This wheel of fate which will be ever more burdensome to learn,
Each and every time. To escape Karma, simply Learn the First time.
Easier said than done, I know.

The path, is to Oneness. The Ladder, is the means.
The Chute, is awayness, seperation, Ego,

So this here I present to you as my working understanding of Karma.
I encourage you to take bits and pieces that may seem beneficial,
And iintegrate only that which resonates the Truth to You.

To reduce karmic "load", reduce your "seprateness", since
Most of our troubles, we give to ourselves.

paulmh

As someone who got all of their knowledge of karma from "My Name is Earl" I've benefitted a lot from your thread Paul. This -

rose up and smacked me very hard in the face.

miss communicat

The yoga sutras of patanjali describe the mechanics of consciousness and awakening. in one sutra (i cannot recal which one) the yogi is taught the way to reverse incoming karmas.

it could be as E. stated above, just "learn the first time", but, it's equally possible that freedom from karma resides in the raising of our vibration and consciousness to a higher, more sensitive and subtle level. every day, in every way. ( sorta like, after having had a spiritual awakening we praxtice these principles in all our affairs)

in this way, we can have gentler lives, with less suffering.

i'd have to give more thought to whether or not I "use" karmic law as my higher power.

thinking.....rhinking......

okay: no. i do not.

I DO believe that the Karmic Board members are in service to the ultimate, supreme and infinite creative principle that some call God.
I DO believe that I am at effect of karmic, natural and spiritual laws, as well as physical laws.

But I DON'T believe that the laws themselves are my higher power. My conscience is the indwelling aspect of the ultimate, supreme and infinite creative principle that some call God, and it guides my actions.

Boleo

All I know is that if I "act as if" there is good Karma in the universe - the Universe
"acts as if" there is good Karma in my life.