Is using AA creating another dependency?
Sugar, I am glad you are happy! Hang on to that.
Maybe you could try a couple AA meetings to see if there is more open-mindedness in one of those groups (although some pitch fits about the difference between addiction or alcohol and addiction to any other substance)? Or SMART or one of the others? It so IRKS me when some blowhard in a meeting tries to censor what others share or tries to humiliate them for sharing it. The whole admonition against taking another man's inventory seems to go right over their heads!
It's interesting how the 12-step stuff has become a golden calf in the outside world. I was listening to a lecture in an abnormal psychology class. I like the professor a great deal; very intelligent man with an abundance of compassion. He went over all the different recovery options (good for him!), stated that the rate of success was identical for each (double good!), and then went on to glorify 12-step stuff. He flat out stated that perceptions that such groups are religious or cultish was misconceived. It was obvious he'd never attended a meeting, never read the literature, had no clue what *really* goes on and was lecturing from a place of ignorance - very out of character for him.
Anyway, I hope you don't let loudmouth know-it-all's keep you from getting what you need.
Maybe you could try a couple AA meetings to see if there is more open-mindedness in one of those groups (although some pitch fits about the difference between addiction or alcohol and addiction to any other substance)? Or SMART or one of the others? It so IRKS me when some blowhard in a meeting tries to censor what others share or tries to humiliate them for sharing it. The whole admonition against taking another man's inventory seems to go right over their heads!
It's interesting how the 12-step stuff has become a golden calf in the outside world. I was listening to a lecture in an abnormal psychology class. I like the professor a great deal; very intelligent man with an abundance of compassion. He went over all the different recovery options (good for him!), stated that the rate of success was identical for each (double good!), and then went on to glorify 12-step stuff. He flat out stated that perceptions that such groups are religious or cultish was misconceived. It was obvious he'd never attended a meeting, never read the literature, had no clue what *really* goes on and was lecturing from a place of ignorance - very out of character for him.
Anyway, I hope you don't let loudmouth know-it-all's keep you from getting what you need.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Southern Colorado
Posts: 1,167
Hey SS. Glad you're getting some good results and glad that you've recognized that you've put something into it and received some good stuff from it.
I'm having this grace vs works discussion right now in another thread. On the one hand, some people really identify with this "grace... unearned gift" aspect of recovery, and I and the one who showed me his lineage pointed out to me the greatest statement of hope in the whole Big Book, "So our troubles, we think, are basically of our own making."
So what does that tell me? If my troubles are of MY own making, I don't have to stay under yours or anybody elses thumb to get this deal!
I am free! Go out there and drink it up! (Recovery, that is! ) Tell that crusty old fart, "Who died and made you boss?" That or find a better meeting.
Realize that some people are just "entitled" to their pain and suffering. Some people don't want to be awakened from their sleep. Let em' sleep. It's uncomfortable for them to wake up. But realize it's also about what you can bring to the place. NA is a great place because you're in it. You're staying clean and sober no matter what those lumps do.
I think, personally, that's an attitude you can take. Hold onto what you've got... till you find someone who willingly accepts what you offer.
I'm having this grace vs works discussion right now in another thread. On the one hand, some people really identify with this "grace... unearned gift" aspect of recovery, and I and the one who showed me his lineage pointed out to me the greatest statement of hope in the whole Big Book, "So our troubles, we think, are basically of our own making."
So what does that tell me? If my troubles are of MY own making, I don't have to stay under yours or anybody elses thumb to get this deal!
I am free! Go out there and drink it up! (Recovery, that is! ) Tell that crusty old fart, "Who died and made you boss?" That or find a better meeting.
Realize that some people are just "entitled" to their pain and suffering. Some people don't want to be awakened from their sleep. Let em' sleep. It's uncomfortable for them to wake up. But realize it's also about what you can bring to the place. NA is a great place because you're in it. You're staying clean and sober no matter what those lumps do.
I think, personally, that's an attitude you can take. Hold onto what you've got... till you find someone who willingly accepts what you offer.
I think that step meetings are for people thinking about quitting or needing support to quit. After a point you either quit or go back out. If you remain clean and sober then at some point you don't need dependence on a meeting to remain in recovery. To me it is like needing surgery at the hospital and being admitted. Once I am healed I finally stop going to the doctor. I may revisit the doctor again if needed but I don't need to keep seeing him if I am well. I figure I will attend step meetings down the road just to remind myself of the pain and misery but my attendance probably will be sporadic. I have not attained sobriety by meetings so I doubt I will have to have them to stay clean. I go because it's mandated I go. I may feel different once I no longer have to "go" maybe my attitude will change then. But I feel wholly clean and recovered on my own merits. Nothing magic about it.. I just quit. It was about to destroy me so quitting was a good idea.
SS, it's a shame that your experience of meetings is negative. To be fair that's not my experience, many share positive stories of happiness. Now there are meetings in my locality that are negative, but they are in the minority and those i tend to stay away from.
Paul
Paul
Live it
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 255
Thanks, guys. I think I've just OD'ed on NA. I'm not going to relapse and I'm still quitting Suboxone within the next 6 months. I'll probably attend a bunch of meetings once I'm finished with treatment and I'll still attend my home group so that I can see my sponsor and help a newcomer. I believe in helping others. I do it for a living. It's just that I've overdone my meeting attendance and it's affecting me negatively. I'll be just fine once I get some music-making and art-making time back into my life. Thanks, again and I apologize for carrying such a negative message.
Hi Paul,
I always enjoy reading your posts as I find many similarities in our experiences with AA & recovery.
I had the same concern as you.
The reason I joined AA is to recover but I do hear many oldtimers talk like we are going to stay sick & be dependent on AA for the rest of our lives. Shares of this nature are not in the majority but given that they are coming from people with years of sobriety, it is almost seen as truth.
At my meeting today, one oldtimer shared how his alcoholism is "cunning, baffling, powerful...and patient" and another shared that he will always have his "alcoholic mind." Of course, others in the room nodded in agreement.
This is NOT what I read in the Big Book. The very first sentences in the forward are:
I am recovering from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body and the book is showing me how! It does NOT say that my alcoholism is waiting patiently for me to start missing meetings or that my mind will always be f***ed up. If this was what the program was all about, I would quit AA and go to counselling or something. I want to recover!
What really helped me get past my doubts is to ALWAYS look for my answers in the Big Book. In meeting rooms, I take what is consistent with the book & leave the rest. And there is some stuff in the book that simply doesn't resonate with me so I put that aside for now.
I don't have any more concerns about becoming dependent on AA. I am a grown man and I can think for myself (e.g. not take what I hear in meeting rooms as gospel). "Practicing these principles" keeps me spiritually fit. I don't have to be scared of alcohol or my alcoholism. And my experience is consistent with the Big Book!
Take care,
Don
BB quote from the 1st edition of the BB.
I always enjoy reading your posts as I find many similarities in our experiences with AA & recovery.
I had the same concern as you.
The reason I joined AA is to recover but I do hear many oldtimers talk like we are going to stay sick & be dependent on AA for the rest of our lives. Shares of this nature are not in the majority but given that they are coming from people with years of sobriety, it is almost seen as truth.
At my meeting today, one oldtimer shared how his alcoholism is "cunning, baffling, powerful...and patient" and another shared that he will always have his "alcoholic mind." Of course, others in the room nodded in agreement.
This is NOT what I read in the Big Book. The very first sentences in the forward are:
WE, OF Alcoholics Anonymous, are more than one hundred men and women who have recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body. To show other alcoholics precisely how we have recovered is the main purpose of this book.
What really helped me get past my doubts is to ALWAYS look for my answers in the Big Book. In meeting rooms, I take what is consistent with the book & leave the rest. And there is some stuff in the book that simply doesn't resonate with me so I put that aside for now.
I don't have any more concerns about becoming dependent on AA. I am a grown man and I can think for myself (e.g. not take what I hear in meeting rooms as gospel). "Practicing these principles" keeps me spiritually fit. I don't have to be scared of alcohol or my alcoholism. And my experience is consistent with the Big Book!
Take care,
Don
BB quote from the 1st edition of the BB.
Last edited by gravity; 06-27-2009 at 10:31 PM.
What really helped me get past my doubts is to ALWAYS look for my answers in the Big Book. In meeting rooms, I take what is consistent with the book & leave the rest. And there is some stuff in the book that simply doesn't resonate with me so I put that aside for now.
I don't have any more concerns about becoming dependent on AA. I am a grown man and I can think for myself (e.g. not take what I hear in meeting rooms as gospel). "Practicing these principles" keeps me spiritually fit. I don't have to be scared of alcohol or my alcoholism. And my experience is consistent with the Big Book!
I don't have any more concerns about becoming dependent on AA. I am a grown man and I can think for myself (e.g. not take what I hear in meeting rooms as gospel). "Practicing these principles" keeps me spiritually fit. I don't have to be scared of alcohol or my alcoholism. And my experience is consistent with the Big Book!
I have got alot of good stuff from this thread, thank you to those posted.
I guess i go through times when i feel uncomfortable about using an AA structured program to achieve sobriety. There are the times when i feel ok, when i feel that maybe i don't need AA.
I am learning as i go along. I think the whole sobriety journey is about learning and that only comes from experience.
I like the idea of making a commitment to the AA program, rather than viewing it as a dependant program.
I'm certainly feeling a bit better about AA after reading this thread.
Paul
I guess i go through times when i feel uncomfortable about using an AA structured program to achieve sobriety. There are the times when i feel ok, when i feel that maybe i don't need AA.
I am learning as i go along. I think the whole sobriety journey is about learning and that only comes from experience.
I like the idea of making a commitment to the AA program, rather than viewing it as a dependant program.
I'm certainly feeling a bit better about AA after reading this thread.
Paul
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